Technical Running in

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Technical Running in

fiat_freak

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Now the boss's new 1.2 has 1,200 miles on it I can begin to feel the engine loosening up, especially climbing hills down here in Cornwall (and there are a few!) in 2nd gear. Even with 2 up and a load on it will still pull well in the right gear.

Just wondered how many miles it wil be before the engine is completely run in and at max petrol efficiency.

Any ideas?
 
Took Mrs b_u's 1.2 Euro 4 to the congtinong recently - see separate thread - started with 4000 miles on the clock, finished with 8,700 and noticeably free-er engine.
 
Now the boss's new 1.2 has 1,200 miles on it I can begin to feel the engine loosening up, especially climbing hills down here in Cornwall (and there are a few!) in 2nd gear. Even with 2 up and a load on it will still pull well in the right gear.

Just wondered how many miles it wil be before the engine is completely run in and at max petrol efficiency.

Any ideas?

Longer than you'd think. My Panda at 12k is noticeably more economical than it was at 6k, and my 500 at 7k has the potential for a little further improvement (though it's doing pretty well already).

A lot depends on how it's run in, and also on the type of oil it's initially filled with.
One recommendation I've seen is to run the car gently for the first couple of hundred miles to bed in the bearings & brake pads, then to drive quite hard for the next 3-4k, keeping 1000 rpm below redline for the first 1500 miles or so. Also, using a synthetic oil will greatly extend the running in period & some experienced powerplant engineers recommend replacing the factory fill with a straight mineral oil & changing to a synthetic after 4-5k. (Note that despite this being good practice, doing so on a new FIAT will likely void your warranty, if you're found out).

I did neither of these things, choosing to drive for maximum economy from the outset, so would expect my cars to still be loosening up even after 20-30k, as Maxi suggests.
 
Longer than you'd think. My Panda at 12k is noticeably more economical than it was at 6k, and my 500 at 7k has the potential for a little further improvement (though it's doing pretty well already).

A lot depends on how it's run in, and also on the type of oil it's initially filled with.
One recommendation I've seen is to run the car gently for the first couple of hundred miles to bed in the bearings & brake pads, then to drive quite hard for the next 3-4k, keeping 1000 rpm below redline for the first 1500 miles or so. Also, using a synthetic oil will greatly extend the running in period & some experienced powerplant engineers recommend replacing the factory fill with a straight mineral oil & changing to a synthetic after 4-5k. (Note that despite this being good practice, doing so on a new FIAT will likely void your warranty, if you're found out).

I did neither of these things, choosing to drive for maximum economy from the outset, so would expect my cars to still be loosening up even after 20-30k, as Maxi suggests.

I would concur. I think at 29k miles my car has probably just about reached its peak.

My 500 has had quite varied running. At first it was just driven short distances for the first couple of thousand miles. Then for the next year or so it had a good 20 mile commute each way on country roads which meant varied speeds. During that time we did a 2k mile roadtrip in europe which means it was at 80-90 most of the time. It's also had the occasional thrashing over the moors after being run for 40 miles to warm up nicely.

Dunno if it's just the fact that the airbox is borked yet again, but it doesn't feel quite right at the moment. But it's in the garage at the moment being looked at. They couldn't replicate the fault, but the technician said it felt a bit flat so at least they seem to think there's something wrong with it.
 
I bought my panda at 33000 miles, engine is still wearing it's self in. Almost there now though can feel the engine relaxing and the fuel starting to level out
 
Thanks to all for the replies and information. The collective feel seems to be that full running-in isn’t achieved until about 20,000 miles.

Back in the mists of time (well the 60’s anyway) it was acknowledged that running-in wasn’t complete until about 20k miles. But then the engine started going downhill rapidly and usually needed at least a de-coke if not a complete re-build by 40k. Modern engines with modern oil technology now seem to be good for at least 150k given regular oil-changes.

Totally agree with JRKitching sentiments on the huge question on running in with fully synthetic oil. I also wonder what happened to the days of running-in oil (that allowed rapid bedding-in of piston rings etc). Am sorely tempted to switch to the idea of mineral oil with 6-monthly changes for the next 10k miles and see what happens. The FIRE engines always worked fine on semi-sythetic oil so can't see too much of a risk using mineral.
 
Totally agree with JRKitching sentiments on the huge question on running in with fully synthetic oil. I also wonder what happened to the days of running-in oil (that allowed rapid bedding-in of piston rings etc). Am sorely tempted to switch to the idea of mineral oil with 6-monthly changes for the next 10k miles and see what happens. The FIRE engines always worked fine on semi-sythetic oil so can't see too much of a risk using mineral.

No No!

Oils are not backwards compatible! Can use semi in a mineral engine and then go onto fully synthetic, but once you have you can't go back. Loads of info about it on google :)
 
I disagree, just cos it's you Rob :p

Joking of course. You're completely right. If you want to be anal you could change the oil after 3-6k miles.
 
I've got tbh, I wonder if people really believe it takes 25K miles to run an engine in?

With both my Panda's one an MJ and the other a 100hp, I honestly did not notice anything in terms of difference with economy from when they were new to when the miles were racked up.

My 100hp returned 35mpg new and 35mpg when it had 27K on the clock.

MJ was 56mpg new and at 9K miles when I chopped it in.

An engine is a little tight when you get it, sure, but really by the time you'd done a couple of thousand miles it ought to be there.
 
I've got tbh, I wonder if people really believe it takes 25K miles to run an engine in?

With both my Panda's one an MJ and the other a 100hp, I honestly did not notice anything in terms of difference with economy from when they were new to when the miles were racked up.

My 100hp returned 35mpg new and 35mpg when it had 27K on the clock.

MJ was 56mpg new and at 9K miles when I chopped it in.

An engine is a little tight when you get it, sure, but really by the time you'd done a couple of thousand miles it ought to be there.

My 1.4 500 loosened up noticeably at 8k perhaps it's the gearbox that is loosening up too
 
An engine is a little tight when you get it, sure, but really by the time you'd done a couple of thousand miles it ought to be there.

Yep. On both the Panda and the Spark the economy levelled out at a couple of thousand miles. Difference was only a couple of MPG anyway.

Spark has 7K miles now and still can't hit 50MPG. Grr.
 
I tend to agree that loosening up is unlikely to go on for tens of thousands of miles - as I noted earlier in the thread, Mrs b_u's 1.2 appeared to be a bit livelier with over 8.000 miles on the clock than it was with 4,000, especially as it was run at relatively high speeds on the continent for a good deal of the second 4,000 miles - but I don't expect it to loosen up any further. However, after the first few thousand miles I'm not sure that I'd expect to see a significant gain in mpg on the 1.2 - I'm sure the potential's there, and the 100HP seemed to give better mileage for most of the first year - about 10,000 miles - as it showed better flexibility as the running gear ran in as well as the engine - but the 1.2's a different animal, working more nearly to the limit of its performance, and the temptation to take advantage of the slight performance gain seems to be counteracting the theoretical improvement in economy. Mrs b_u's late lamented MJ seemed to ease up over a longer period. Interestingly, the MJ settled down to almost 60 mpg, the 1.2 does just about 50 mpg, and the 100HP gives just under 40 mpg - remembering that we do relatively little stop-start driving in traffic.
 
I tend to agree that loosening up is unlikely to go on for tens of thousands of miles - as I noted earlier in the thread, Mrs b_u's 1.2 appeared to be a bit livelier with over 8.000 miles on the clock than it was with 4,000, especially as it was run at relatively high speeds on the continent for a good deal of the second 4,000 miles - but I don't expect it to loosen up any further. However, after the first few thousand miles I'm not sure that I'd expect to see a significant gain in mpg on the 1.2 - I'm sure the potential's there, and the 100HP seemed to give better mileage for most of the first year - about 10,000 miles - as it showed better flexibility as the running gear ran in as well as the engine - but the 1.2's a different animal, working more nearly to the limit of its performance, and the temptation to take advantage of the slight performance gain seems to be counteracting the theoretical improvement in economy. Mrs b_u's late lamented MJ seemed to ease up over a longer period. Interestingly, the MJ settled down to almost 60 mpg, the 1.2 does just about 50 mpg, and the 100HP gives just under 40 mpg - remembering that we do relatively little stop-start driving in traffic.

I still think there is more loosening up for your 1.2. My 1.2 500 generally pops in 50mpg figures regularly and it's on rather wide 195 tyres so your 1.2 should be able to manage at least 55 or 60 IMHO :)

I can only give my experiences with regards to loosening up and my 500 was still loosening up at about 20k miles but seems to be holding steady now (29,750). My car has been driven fairly gently so someone like TDQ or Rob who asks a little more of their car may find they run their engine in a lot quicker :)
 
No No!

Oils are not backwards compatible! Can use semi in a mineral engine and then go onto fully synthetic, but once you have you can't go back. Loads of info about it on google :)

I'm sorry, but that's a load of bovine excrement.

Oil is oil, the only difference between synthetic and mineral is the quality of the feedstock and the additive packages. As long as your engine doesn't outright require semi- or fully-synthetic (it'll say so in the manual) you can switch between mineral and synthetic all you want, as long as you keep in mind that mineral has dramatically shorter oil change intervals.

Taking those oil change intervals and the price difference of mineral vs. synthetic into account, there's no reason to use mineral oil anymore, unless you have an old engine with really short oil change intervals like a motorcycle. Mine gets fresh oil every 6000km in accordance with the manual and semi-synth is still the cheapest for me.

Follow. The. Manual.

This goes for both oil and fuel and run-in periods. It's not that hard, people. It's hardly rocket surgery.
 
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I'm sorry, but that's a load of bovine excrement.

Oil is oil, the only difference between synthetic and mineral is the quality of the feedstock and the additive packages. As long as your engine doesn't outright require semi- or fully-synthetic (it'll say so in the manual) you can switch between mineral and synthetic all you want, as long as you keep in mind that mineral has dramatically shorter oil change intervals.

Taking those oil change intervals and the price difference of mineral vs. synthetic into account, there's no reason to use mineral oil anymore, unless you have an old engine with really short oil change intervals like a motorcycle. Mine gets fresh oil every 6000km in accordance with the manual and semi-synth is still the cheapest for me.

And Fiat specifically state that Panda's should be fun on fully synth IIRC or perhaps maybe semi-synth. No mineral oil.......
 
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