K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid - first coined by Kelly Johnson, who was the lead engineer at Lockheed's Skunk Works where he was responsible for the U-2 and SR-71 Blackbird spy planes.

In the latest issue of EVO magazine, Harry Metcalf [founder of the publication, farmer of 300 acres and owner of several classic and supercars] discusses 'eco' cars and their over-inflated price tags. He argues that the additional technology [hybrid, electric, etc.] and therefore cost, is unnecessary. He goes on to write:

"Take the humble Fiat Panda; there's a car that was built under the KISS principle of engineering from the very start. I've had one at home for the last four years and use it as a general runabout. It costs beans to buy new, sips fuel with the enthusiasm of a dead trout and seems to do just as good as job of transporting people around the place as cars like the Nissan Leaf or BMW Megacity promise to do - yet for a quarter of the initial cost.

It's simple cars like this that enthusiasts like us should embrace, because these fun little eco-boxes will prove a far more palatable solution to green motoring than some of the over-engineered models set to be launched over the next year or so."

But we knew that already, didn't we?

Just remember though that first you have to have these more expensive overengineered models come out so that infrastructure can be put in place to charge batteries and so on and technology can develop to the point where it's suitable for the masses.

Ian, theres also a small mention about the 100hp in Richard Porters article in this months EVO ;-) 'wrong wheel drive' is the subject if i remember correctly

Good spot and Harrys view is definately one with which I agree. Harry also has a Tesla that he recharges from his wind-turbine - making it one of the true "zero carbon footprint in use" vehicles. Mining the materials for all those batteries however would have been a very dirty business mind.... He confirms however that he can only use the car once a week or so max, as it takes that long to charge it up....

And whilst not everyone likes Clarkson's take on the world, he's also right about the Prius and the horrific eco-cost that its manufacturing process has on the overall supposedly green credentials that the car is supposed to have.

Less is so much more these days!

PG

pandamonium24 said:

Ian, theres also a small mention about the 100hp in Richard Porters article in this months EVO ;-) 'wrong wheel drive' is the subject if i remember correctly

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That is indeed true - the 100HP gets a mention for being a fun front-driver

R1NGA said:

And whilst not everyone likes Clarkson's take on the world, he's also right about the Prius and the horrific eco-cost that its manufacturing process has on the overall supposedly green credentials that the car is supposed to have.

Less is so much more these days!

PG

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EVO magazine ran a real-world test of the Prius and 100HP to see which was the more economical. It was the Panda that emerged as the winner

I still think that you people seem to be ignoring the fact that we can't keep burning deal animals forever

306maxi said:

I still think that you people seem to be ignoring the fact that we can't keep burning deal animals forever

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No, I realise that, but I also agree that the tech now is not good enough to make the "Eco" cars work.

The Prius, and Leaf are a requirement, but they are no "Eco" cars, they are a required evil that has to happen to allow the tech to catch up.
I would rather see the investment into bio fuels or hydrogen cells, instead of nickel and cadmium. Reducing the reliance on fossil fuels in other applications, other than just the relentless blaming of cars.
How much does the car produce by way of emissions compared to say, Chinas industrial emissions?

The whole ethos of the article is to show that the "humble" Panda does more for real life (right now) Eco people than any of the alternatives, and I have to say, I agree.

Golgarth said:

No, I realise that, but I also agree that the tech now is not good enough to make the "Eco" cars work.

The Prius, and Leaf are a requirement, but they are no "Eco" cars, they are a required evil that has to happen to allow the tech to catch up.
I would rather see the investment into bio fuels or hydrogen cells, instead of nickel and cadmium. Reducing the reliance on fossil fuels in other applications, other than just the relentless blaming of cars.
How much does the car produce by way of emissions compared to say, Chinas industrial emissions?

The whole ethos of the article is to show that the "humble" Panda does more for real life (right now) Eco people than any of the alternatives, and I have to say, I agree.

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Similar to the point I was making in another thread.

He doesn't have a Tesla, that was a test car. IIRC he wasn't too impressed with it as an ownership proposition.

Does have a Zonda and a Countach in his collection though :worship:

He's also just put a deposit down on a Ferrari FF - claims it is going to be the new daily driver! A tough life farming the land obviously

Golgarth said:

How much does the car produce by way of emissions compared to say, Chinas industrial emissions?

The whole ethos of the article is to show that the "humble" Panda does more for real life (right now) Eco people than any of the alternatives, and I have to say, I agree.

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And who buys all the stuff that China's factories churn out?

Don't kid yourself that the Panda is in any way remotely 'eco'. Sure it's slightly less planet-raping than an SUV but it doesn't make you the planet's best friend.

306maxi said:

I still think that you people seem to be ignoring the fact that we can't keep burning deal animals forever

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Totally agree, but right now most of the UKs tizzy comes from dead animals anyway, which is a shame. There are a lot of pro-electric vehicle folks that bang on about their battery-powered cars having zero CO2 emissions, but we all know this to be fundamentally incorrect.

Some very interesting research was done recently by BMW (amongst others), suggesting that where you recharge your 100% electric vehicle in Europe has a huge bearing on the equivalent amount of CO2 produced. The report concluded that to recharge in hydroelectric-intensive Norway, the CO2 equivalent emitted when fully charging is pretty much ZERO. Charge in nuclear power-friendly France and that rises to 35-50g/km. Charge in coal and gas powered countries like the UK and the equivalent is about 130g/km. Average. Much more than a new Twinair 500 therefore.....

I'm not saying that there's no future in electric (as ultimately that will of course be the case with petrol/diesel), but right now, it's not really helping at point of use. BUT, it is a route to a proper system that will inevitably come to be, as something ultimately has to if the worlds economies are not to grind to a transportless halt....

Interesting stuff.

Phil G

R1NGA said:

Totally agree, but right now most of the UKs tizzy comes from dead animals anyway, which is a shame. There are a lot of pro-electric vehicle folks that bang on about their battery-powered cars having zero CO2 emissions, but we all know this to be fundamentally incorrect.

Some very interesting research was done recently by BMW (amongst others), suggesting that where you recharge your 100% electric vehicle in Europe has a huge bearing on the equivalent amount of CO2 produced. The report concluded that to recharge in hydroelectric-intensive Norway, the CO2 equivalent emitted when fully charging is pretty much ZERO. Charge in nuclear power-friendly France and that rises to 35-50g/km. Charge in coal and gas powered countries like the UK and the equivalent is about 130g/km. Average. Much more than a new Twinair 500 therefore.....

I'm not saying that there's no future in electric (as ultimately that will of course be the case with petrol/diesel), but right now, it's not really helping at point of use. BUT, it is a route to a proper system that will inevitably come to be, as something ultimately has to if the worlds economies are not to grind to a transportless halt....

Interesting stuff.

Phil G

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But we need to start somewhere and whilst hybrids and electric cars aren't ready to take over just yet, we shouldn't write them off

You should take a look at Robert Llewellyns podcast, Fullycharged. He test drives different electric and hybrid cars.

One of the points he makes in one of them, (can't remember which one) is that although electric vehicles are often touted as zero emissions, this is obviously at point of use. He recognises that the generation of electricity creates co2, but that is very small in comparison to the production of petrol/diesel.

Most people don't realise that to refine the oil into the fuel of your choice creates a large amount of co2 before you even start using it in your car!

Personally I'd love to use an electric vehicle purely on its running costs not environmental impact.

The new Renault Twizy would be ideal to commute to work and back, if you could suffer the funny looks you'd probably get.

http://www.renault-ze.com/en-gb/gam...lt-z.e./twizy-technic/presentation-60210.html