Technical F.I.R.E. engine

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Technical F.I.R.E. engine

dawpooldad

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Hi,
I have the 1.1 active Eco and a great little car it is too!

I hope that someone can confirm the origin of the engine. Is it a later version of the F.I.R.E. engine?

The reason I ask is that when having a M.O.T on the other car (1954 Morris Minor Ser.II). The mechanic was talking about the "old days with proper timing chains" and we got onto the subject of cam belts and the damage caused when they break. He said that there were only a few car engines that could shred a cam belt without problems and that the Fiat F.I.R.E. was one of them.
Is this true of the current Panda and is it still possible that the belt can go without major damage?

I wouldn't, of course, advocate not changing the belt when it's due, but I remember changing a cam belt on an UNO once for my sister in law with this engine and it was a doddle!

Thanks in anticipation.

Rgds

dawpooldad
 
Yes, the 1.1 and 1.2 are standard 8-valve FIRE engines. It's a non-interference design, so it won't suffer any damage should the cam belt fail.
 
The mechanic was talking about the "old days with proper timing chains

Eh? My Jag has a timing chain and it's not that old!

I seems to think the 1.1 FIRE has been around since the Uno in the early 80's, I had one no bother, then the 1.1 Cenq sporting, no bother, then the mk 1 punto, no bother there either.
Come to think of it, over the years I've probably put more than 250k on these little engines and replaced a starter motor and one coil pack, oh and I stripped a plug thread once ut that was my fault!
 
Same here Goudrons
In nearly 40 years of Fiat motoring only failed to get home on own steam once; that was a mk1 Punto Head gasket blow.
Guy I knew years ago said you may as well rev the *** off any Fiat engine as normally the bodywork would fail long before the engine did
 
The mechanic was talking about the "old days with proper timing chains"

This was his term not mine although I do tend to agree with him!

I've had, in the recent past, Nissan Micras and they had a timing chain with adjustment.

In fact, I traded one in for the Panda under the scrappage scheme.

There still loads of them around, with some of them running up over a 100,000 miles!

In my opinion, one of the finest engines ever made!

Great news about the non interference design though, very civilised!!!!

Regds

dawpooldad
 
I used to have a Corsa which had a timing chain. I replaced it with a brand new Panda when the head gasket went on it.

The chains on them needed a fresh supply of oil or they would get rattely like my old one did, the previous owner didn't do enough oil changes.

I think main dealers only charge around £160 to replace the timing belt on the FIRE so it must be a simple job.
 
yes, my Jags a oil burner, guess it's to do with the torque they make.

The chains are prone to stretching which will make they rattle, there are guides and a tensioner that would probably have solved the rattle before the chain decided to jump the sprockets, with disasterous results.

I remember doing the cam belt on my old Uno, align the cam pulley and a bolt through it to lock it off, simple.
 
I used to have a Corsa which had a timing chain. I replaced it with a brand new Panda when the head gasket went on it.

The chains on them needed a fresh supply of oil or they would get rattely like my old one did, the previous owner didn't do enough oil changes.

I think main dealers only charge around £160 to replace the timing belt on the FIRE so it must be a simple job.

Got mind done for £125 from memory, but that was on offer
 
The FIRE engines are blo*dy good. The 1.2 in the 500 is another revision of the FIRE engine i believe. New Pandas are now being built with this newer, slightly more powerful version of the 1.2.

With Euro 5 coming in, the 1.1 engine has been dropped :( and all Pandas will now be 1.2 (or 1.3 diesel).

It is good how Fiat use this non-interference design on the 1.2 FIRE, aswell as chains on the 1.3 Multijet & on some of the bigger petrol engines used in Alfas. Makes buying a used Fiat, particularly a 1.2 FIRE or 1.3 Multijet, a pretty sound proposition from a mechanical perspective.
 
It is good how Fiat use this non-interference design on the 1.2 FIRE, aswell as chains on the 1.3 Multijet & on some of the bigger petrol engines used in Alfas. Makes buying a used Fiat, particularly a 1.2 FIRE or 1.3 Multijet, a pretty sound proposition from a mechanical perspective.

To be fair Liam, cam belts rarely fail. The only disadvantage over a timing chain is that you have to change the cam belt at given intervals, whereas a chain will generally last the lifetime of the engine. So in terms of reliability what you gain with a chain is pretty minimal compared to other potential issues.
 
Chains do break .
I had one break once, on a Vauxhall Chevette ( anyone remember them?)
The spring loaded tensioner failed causing the chain to jump the crank sprocket
and snap the chain.
(My own fault trying to keep up with my mates MK1 Cortina GT)
Although there was no other damage (probably just lucky) to the engine , I just replaced the chain chain tensioner and sprockets re timed the engine, all fixed .

Lauren (Trackdayqueen) is right , there are potential issues and failures on both cam belt and chain.
 
To be fair Liam, cam belts rarely fail. The only disadvantage over a timing chain is that you have to change the cam belt at given intervals, whereas a chain will generally last the lifetime of the engine. So in terms of reliability what you gain with a chain is pretty minimal compared to other potential issues.

Lol, don't say that near the renaultsport Clio lot, LOTS of cam belt failures. I'm my experience the chain tensioners tend to be the biggest problem with timing chains, along with the oil spray bars clogging. Nissan did the second two chains on my micra for free after they botched it a few times changing the tensioners.
I suppose belts are cheaper.........
 
To be fair Liam, cam belts rarely fail. The only disadvantage over a timing chain is that you have to change the cam belt at given intervals, whereas a chain will generally last the lifetime of the engine. So in terms of reliability what you gain with a chain is pretty minimal compared to other potential issues.

I wasn't really saying a cambelt or chain is better than the other, as i know both can cause problems. Alfas T-Spark (belt) & JTS (chain) engines spring to mind. I just meant that if someone was picking a used car, say over 5 years old, they might feel slightly safer in the Fiat 1.2 knowing that in the rare event that the cambelt goes, it's unlikely to cost them the car, which on another engine (Renault Energy engine for example) it probably would.

Though i spose some could say that if youre looking to spend as little as possible on repairs then you wouldn't pick a Fiat :rolleyes:

Unless you own a twinspark alfa!
Alfa halved the change interval from 72k to 36k as they couldn't afford the warranty claims of them all snapping after two or three years.

They're a right minefield. The best part is that it seems quite normal for them to snap a belt as soon as 36k is done. My mate had a 147 1.6T Spark & even though the belt, tensioner, variator had been done at 50k, the variator was still starting to rattle 3 years/20k miles later :eek:

The 147 JTD 16v's arn't alot better either, but those usually throw the belt anytime after 40k miles because of waterpump failure. A shame coz the i love the 147's but cambelt changes that frequently (unless you can DIY) are crippling.

Chains do break .
I had one break once, on a Vauxhall Chevette ( anyone remember them?)

My Auntie had a red/orange Chevette when i was about 4 y/o. About 1988 ish i think :confused:

Lol, don't say that near the renaultsport Clio lot, LOTS of cam belt failures. I'm my experience the chain tensioners tend to be the biggest problem with timing chains, along with the oil spray bars clogging. Nissan did the second two chains on my micra for free after they botched it a few times changing the tensioners.
I suppose belts are cheaper.........

The chain probably is one of the reasons there are so many old Micras knocking about still. I thought most had gone with the Scrappage scheme, but theyre all coming outta the woodwork again it seems. Providing the chain doesn't cause issues, it's just a potential big bill (belt change) that the owner doesn't need to think about & therefore saves them thinking 'better get rid soon'.

Which Renaultsport Clios have been effected? The 172/182s? I used to sell them. Renault's my other brand of choice, though i got slightly cold feet after a disasterous new Clio in 2002, hence the string of Fiats from 2003 onwards!
 
yes, my Jags a oil burner, guess it's to do with the torque they make.

The chains are prone to stretching which will make they rattle, there are guides and a tensioner that would probably have solved the rattle before the chain decided to jump the sprockets, with disasterous results.

I remember doing the cam belt on my old Uno, align the cam pulley and a bolt through it to lock it off, simple.


Hi Goudrons, if your Jaaaaaag has the V6 2.7 or 3.0 diesel in it, it has cambelts.

This diesel engine was designed by PSA (Peugeot/Citroen) in association with Ford, then developed by Jaguar/Land Rover for their ranges.


Dave
 
It isn't, it's a Ford Suradorq, sorry Duratorq motor.
(My Jag in a Mondeo in a party frock)
So it's chain cam, but the other belts are a menace!

The aux belt crank pulley wobbles and rattles the tensioner so it sounds like a demented Massey Fergusson at the lights at idle.
There's a heavier revised pulley and tensioner available, but you need elbows that bend the other way and x-ray eyes to fit it.

The PAS and waterpump are saimesed together and run off a small belt/pulley off the camshaft, rear of the engine, great idea, until the PAS pump wears or leaks and you lose the PAS and cooling all in one go.
 
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