LeanMeanRacing said:

I did wonder if you were a little bit of a control freak?!

I use a variety of techniques, depending on the type of road and the conditions. They could range from what I teach my students, to IAM/Police Roadcraft, through to circuit.

If anyone wants to see fast-road driving done in the smoothest possible way, take a drive with John Lyon.

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I think a lot of people are like that. My wife tends to be a nervous passenger with me in the car as rather than brake for a corner I tend to prefer just lift well before the corner and approach at a speed which means I don't need to brake so she thinks "OH NOOOOOO HE DIDN'T BRAKE!!!!! HE'S GOING TO KILL US ALL!!!!!"

I took a drive through Snowdonia back in May with a friend who was over from Australia. He's an ex-rally driver and I felt completely safe with him going a fair bit faster than I usually would. Did all his braking pretty much in a straight line, car never felt as if it was under or oversteering. I usually hate being driven fast because most of the time it's young people who think they know what they're doing but are really just guessing.

Not many students make me nervous as I am ultimately in control, either through telling them what to do/not to do or by actually taking control where strictly necessary

The guy I bought my Megablade from demonstrated its performance through the lanes of South Wales and I was holding on tightly. I'd been out on track with him in his Ultima GTR, but on a public road, he was driving very fast.

When I've given circuit tuition I have been very relaxed - after all, it's not my car they're driving!

LeanMeanRacing said:

Not many students make me nervous as I am ultimately in control, either through telling them what to do/not to do or by actually taking control where strictly necessary

The guy I bought my Megablade from demonstrated its performance through the lanes of South Wales and I was holding on tightly. I'd been out on track with him in his Ultima GTR, but on a public road, he was driving very fast.

When I've given circuit tuition I have been very relaxed - after all, it's not my car they're driving!

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I don't think you can be an instructor if you're just going to be nervous Not good for you or for them

306maxi said:

I don't think you can be an instructor if you're just going to be nervous Not good for you or for them

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That is very true - you have to have faith in the person who is teaching you something, be it driving or anything else.

Mind you, I dare you to sit next to a student who constantly veers towards oncoming traffic and not feel a little apprehensive!

306maxi said:

I don't think you can be an instructor if you're just going to be nervous Not good for you or for them

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Well I'm a very bad passenger when people are driving badly, but when I'm tutoring drivers (advanced driving) I feel better because I have some control. I can anticipate most dangers and talk them around them if necessary. When things do go wrong I can easily remain calm, even if I'm actually petrified. I suppose my biggest fear is when people drive dangerously without realising it.

306maxi said:

I don't think you can be an instructor if you're just going to be nervous Not good for you or for them

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I've had a few bad experiences instructing and decided, it wasn't for me. Mind you I made the mistake of monkey see, monkey do and opted to take this journalist for a quick but not too edgy lap round Brands Indy.

Then he got in the car and tried replicate what I was doing and nearly killed us both. I was just glad to get back in alive. I only do it for friends I know thesedays.

Advanced Driver said:

...but when I'm tutoring drivers (advanced driving) I feel better because I have some control....

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Advanced Driver - are you an IAM Observer? I remember one of mine - he was a fire fighter and was the driver of the appliance. He was really strict until I'd proved myself!

I used to be a driver mentor for the bus company I work for. Basicly I'd take new drivers out in service & teach them the job, gradually doing less & less until they were OK on thier own.
One guy I had was an ex, fire Service Driver trainer, he put the wind up me a few times going for 8'6" gaps with an 8'2" bus at speed He was just in a different place to anyone else as far a judgement went. Not reckless at all, just inch perfect.

I don't think I could be an Instuctor though. They are very special people!

LeanMeanRacing said:

Advanced Driver - are you an IAM Observer? I remember one of mine - he was a fire fighter and was the driver of the appliance. He was really strict until I'd proved myself!

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I'm a RoSPA tutor, which is basically the same thing but for a different organisation.

I don't think I'm strict... :idea: maybe I should be :devil:

trackdayqueen said:

I think the main problem with push pull, even if done 'correctly' is that:

1: you don't know where the wheels are pointing, so if you get into a slide you've got little chance of getting out of it......

If I went out as a passenger on track and the person used the push/pull method, I'd either give them some instruction, or asked to be let out the next time we go past the pits. I don't even feel safe if I'm a passenger with someone who does that on the road, so rarely let others drive me.

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Watching the following video reminded me of the debate in this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ESO5oJWJ9Ys

'Feeding' the steering looks good enough for WR

That's just fannying about at low speed though!

No feeding the steering here!



Personally I think there's a place for both. If I'm just pootling about through town I'll usually feed the steering as it feels right but if I'm driving through the countryside I'll just keep my hands at 10 and 2 especially if I'm pushing on.

306maxi said:

Personally I think there's a place for both. If I'm just pootling about through town I'll usually feed the steering as it feels right but if I'm driving through the countryside I'll just keep my hands at 10 and 2 especially if I'm pushing on.

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I agree with you and had the same thought myself this morning whilst tackling some NSL country roads.

Just playing Devil's Advocate

LeanMeanRacing said:

I agree with you and had the same thought myself this morning whilst tackling some NSL country roads.

Just playing Devil's Advocate

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I suspected as much

I don't often drift the car at low speeds in car parks and through suburban streets and forget which way the wheels are pointing I have to admit though that i agree with Lauren as well, in the snow when my car was sliding about it'd have been suicide to do push/pull steering....

That is a great video to illustrate left-foot braking. I can do it for fun but doing it at the limit takes great skill

LeanMeanRacing said:

That is a great video to illustrate left-foot braking. I can do it for fun but doing it at the limit takes great skill

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I had a little play around with lfb but sadly the 500 won't let you lfb but it sure makes the front end pointier and in my 406 1.9 turbo diesel it was fun to build up boost against the brakes and as soon as a gap appeared you could just overtake

LeanMeanRacing said:

'Feeding' the steering looks good enough for WR

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Nice car. One example does not an argument make.

Also, if I get into situation when I have to use a push pull type method in a slide, I generally take that as a sign of me messing up. I can go a bit over 180 degrees with two hands and if I need to, I can go another 90 degrees with one. If I get past that point I'm very likely to spin, or at least slow it down to a snails pace.

Advanced Driver said:

Well to change down properly you really want to be using the throttle at the same time so that the clutch etc. isn't doing lots of work. To do that you then need to be braking and using the throttle pedal at the same time which gets more complicated and difficult.

If it's good enough for Police driving at high speeds then I'm sure it's good enough for everything else.

That's true, one of the reasons for the change is due to the change in cars. If you got in a 50 year old classic car then using the gears for slowing may be a good idea, but on modern cars I can't really see any benefit.

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Interesting points here. I'm always astonished at people with tyre changes. I'd never expect my fronts to last more than 8000 miles - they are changed well before scraping the last milllimetres.

As for block-shifting, I'm 40+ and like many here had to endure the rules from way back when. That said, I coast in neutral occasionally, I certainly block shift up when setting off behind slower cars because the FIATs are flexible (1,3,6), I blip the throttle on changing down to save the clutch and like many, appreciate the engine-braking a small petrol engine gives you and then brake when needed.

What other folks do doesn't concern me too much, as long as they're in control .