My front driver side is showing lot of wear at 12000 -I'm wondering if the tracking is out. This brings up another question - it would be easier to rotate the tyres if the spare could be included in the rotation - the spare is the thin emergency type - is it possible to fit a standard size spare wheel in the well without causing a bump in the floor? And id so can anyone tell me where I can buy a single wheel from?

gareth111278 said:

I've heard this said a few times now, IMHO, on a front wheel drive, its just wrong! The fronts do all the driving & steering.
Perhaps having the best grip on the rear will stop the back end coming round during emergency braking but I'd rather that than the front loosing grip & understeering off into the countryside.
I'm also thinking that as a tyre gets older the chances of it failing get higher, a rear end blow out doesn't sound as scary to me as a front. Am i wrong?
Gareth

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A used tyre thats say only a few years old is no more likly to blow out than a new one. and where ever a tyre blows out, at speed it'll be a issue.

As for you'd rather the rear end swing out than understeer, just remember that your better of understeering head-on into a tree or some other roadside furniture than sliding sideways into it. Front end protects better than the side

gareth111278 said:

I've heard this said a few times now, IMHO, on a front wheel drive, its just wrong! The fronts do all the driving & steering.
Perhaps having the best grip on the rear will stop the back end coming round during emergency braking but I'd rather that than the front loosing grip & understeering off into the countryside.
I'm also thinking that as a tyre gets older the chances of it failing get higher, a rear end blow out doesn't sound as scary to me as a front. Am i wrong?
Gareth

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One of the TV shows did this a few years ago (Fifth Gear ?),in the wet with worn but legal tyres on the rear a sudden release of the throttle mid turn(ie panic) results in a severe oversteer.

alanterrill said:

My front driver side is showing lot of wear at 12000 -I'm wondering if the tracking is out. This brings up another question - it would be easier to rotate the tyres if the spare could be included in the rotation - the spare is the thin emergency type - is it possible to fit a standard size spare wheel in the well without causing a bump in the floor? And id so can anyone tell me where I can buy a single wheel from?

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Why would you want to bring the spare into the rotation? You'll just end up with tyres that aren't equal from side to side and that's not good.

alanterrill said:

My front driver side is showing lot of wear at 12000 -I'm wondering if the tracking is out. This brings up another question - it would be easier to rotate the tyres if the spare could be included in the rotation - the spare is the thin emergency type - is it possible to fit a standard size spare wheel in the well without causing a bump in the floor? And id so can anyone tell me where I can buy a single wheel from?

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You used to be able to order a full-sized spare with the car - 20 quid and the best bargain under the sun - my wife's MJ has one - fits with no problems including toolket in centre of wheel. I believe that this is no longer possible so a scrapyard has to be the best bet I imagine.

306maxi said:

Why would you want to bring the spare into the rotation? You'll just end up with tyres that aren't equal from side to side and that's not good.

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That was what I was trying to avoid! If I replace the one worn one I'll have an odd pair -if I bought two, then the slightly worn front one could go in the boot -but not as things stand with a space saving spare.

Re Front & rear. I stand corrected! I see the point now

I suppose as i seldom let a tyre go under 3mm my traction worries are reduced anyway.

alanterrill said:

That was what I was trying to avoid! If I replace the one worn one I'll have an odd pair -if I bought two, then the slightly worn front one could go in the boot -but not as things stand with a space saving spare.

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Just replace both at the same time. The saving in money when replacing the odd tyre is simply not worth it.

Advanced Driver said:

Block changing/shifting is a very good way of changing gears. It's taught by driving instructors, and advanced drivers use it (including the police). There are a few benefits. You can keep both hands on the steering wheel while braking. There is less where on the clutch/gearbox. Brakes are also much cheaper/easier to replace than the clutch/gearbox. I really can't understand why anybody would not block change in normal driving.

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I never block shift. You haven't got the control you have block shifting that you have if you go down through the gears.

I think it's a rubbish technique personally, but no way near as bad as the 'push/pull' method of steering.

Using your gears to slow down does not overly wear the gearbox, but it does mean you have better control.

Cant see whether using the gears or the brakes to scrub off the speed makes any difference to tyre wear, the front tyres will still be doing most the work. Its the rate at which you decellerate that will make a difference.

I think the front / rear arguement is fairly academic for most the people I see bouncing up and down curbs when trying to park. All the tyres on the car will be equally damaged.

ivantate said:

Cant see whether using the gears or the brakes to scrub off the speed makes any difference to tyre wear, the front tyres will still be doing most the work. Its the rate at which you decellerate that will make a difference.

I think the front / rear arguement is fairly academic for most the people I see bouncing up and down curbs when trying to park. All the tyres on the car will be equally damaged.

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I agree, but I still think best tyres on the rear is best for most people.

Tbh when I'm driving my 500 I barely brake tbh, I just let the rolling resistance of the tyres slow me down when I'm coming up to a light that i can see is red or is going red.

trackdayqueen said:

I never block shift. You haven't got the control you have block shifting that you have if you go down through the gears.

I think it's a rubbish technique personally, but no way near as bad as the 'push/pull' method of steering.

Using your gears to slow down does not overly wear the gearbox, but it does mean you have better control.

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Does block shifting really make a difference in everyday driving though? If I'm driving for a bit of fun and carrying some speed through a corner I'll always going down through the box as you would but tbh i block shift down a lot of the time when I'm just pootling back and forth from work to home.

Completely right with the whole push/pull thing.

306maxi said:

Does block shifting really make a difference in everyday driving though? If I'm driving for a bit of fun and carrying some speed through a corner I'll always going down through the box as you would but tbh i block shift down a lot of the time when I'm just pootling back and forth from work to home.

Completely right with the whole push/pull thing.

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Well it probably matters less when driving at slow speeds, but then it doesn't matter that much how you use your gears at low speeds.

I've not block shifted for years, just keep in the right gear for whatever speed I'm doing. I'd never go from 4th to 2nd for example when turning onto a side road, I would have gone through third first. But, I do admit I am a bit of a purist with these things.

trackdayqueen said:

Well it probably matters less when driving at slow speeds, but then it doesn't matter that much how you use your gears at low speeds.

I've not block shifted for years, just keep in the right gear for whatever speed I'm doing. I'd never go from 4th to 2nd for example when turning onto a side road, I would have gone through third first. But, I do admit I am a bit of a purist with these things.

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helps give the synchros an easier life too.

306maxi said:

Tbh when I'm driving my 500 I barely brake tbh, I just let the rolling resistance of the tyres slow me down when I'm coming up to a light that i can see is red or is going red.

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Surprised you are only getting 45mpg if you are taking it that steady, or is it a case of pootling around and then giving it a bit more on the bigger roads/when you feel like it.

ivantate said:

Surprised you are only getting 45mpg if you are taking it that steady, or is it a case of pootling around and then giving it a bit more on the bigger roads/when you feel like it.

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There are a few reasons why it never does that well. Firstly I went for the 16" wheel option which means wide tyres and extra rolling resistance, it's only fairly new so probably not fully run in tbh, at times it's been used a lot on short journeys so barely warms up, most of the time we've had it it's been cold so economy has suffered and the wife is also a bit heavy on the brakes and accelerator when she drives. Now that it's warming up and summer is just around the corner I'm hoping the fuel economy will improve a bit

All four tyres are due to be changed on my 100HP. The rears have covered 59,500 miles but the fronts have been replaced twice already [averaging 20,000 miles per set]. That's teaching people to drive which means lots of junctions and manoeuvres [very slow speed but not dry-steering].

Here's my perspective on 'block-changing' and 'pull-push' steering as an Institute of Advanced Motorist since 1996, an Approved Driving Instructor of 10 years and having done many track days and several sprints.......

For general road driving, IMHO, block-changing is [1] safer, as both hands are on the steering for more of the time; [2] causes less wear and tear on the transmission as you [aim to] change gear once; [3] less effort than squentially changing through several gears.

The idea of pull-push steering [if done correctly] is that at the apex of a bend, each hand is still at the 3 and 9 o'clock position. That way, if a loss of grip or unexpected hazard is experienced, a quick change of direction is achievable. In addition, for many junctions and small roundabouts, more than half a turn of steering lock is necessary - and if you have already crossed your arms, that means letting of of the wheel.

I have also done a day with the founder of the High Performance Course, John Lyon. He was a Police instructor [as well as Caterham champion] and he promotes the above for road driving of all types.

(Not very happy that you've been putting new tyres on the front, by the way.)

Absolutely agree on block changing.

Disagree on wheel shuffling - though I dread the discussion that's going to ensue. If the driver anticipates what steering movement is going to be required he/she can place the "pushing" hand appropriately and can negotiate any corner or roundabout without removing a hand from the wheel and without crossing arms (unless something really unexpected happens in which case I'd cross my arms, my eyes, my buttocks and anything else to avoid an accident but the last thing that I'd do would be to shuffle the wheel.) Apart from anything else I maintain that the action and sensitivity in pushing and pulling the wheel is so different that doing each alternately is a mistake, the pushing hand should lead and the pulling hand should assist if necessary.

[Harry Hill] Feeding the steering or arm crossing - which is best? [/Harry Hill]

Harry Hill? Che?