Technical 100hp 3rd gear crunch

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Technical 100hp 3rd gear crunch

jimbo118

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We've just bought a lovely white 100hp and enjoying it very much.

It was bought and registered in April last year (09 plate) but the owner didn't get to use it much (an understatement!) as it only had 301 miles on the clock when we bought it just before Christmas.

Apart from an annoying rattle, the only real problem is the gearbox baulking when trying to go from 2nd to 3rd at anything other than a very, very slow pace. It makes you wince as you can feel the syncho baulking. Car still only has 700 miles on it, so still early days.

No dealers local but took it to Westover in Poole today. Got the usual "There's no problem, they all do that, it'll get better after a few miles" fob off. Explained I was a mechanical design engineer and that this problem was only going to get worse until 3rd synchro breaks up but they weren't listening (guess they're hoping this will happen outside of warranty so it won't be fiats' problem).

Guess I need to find a dealer who's interested in fixing what I consider to be major problem on a new car - it looks like it's a known problem on this gearbox.

Is it worth ringing Fiat UK or are they as helpful as their dealers?
 
Mine does crunch when going into third but more annoying is the fact that it still refuses third gear at least once a journey.

Initially thinking it was my fault I didn't get it looked at but eventually asked for the porblem to be looked into when it went in for a few other issues.

Got the same treatment from the garage who didn't seem to investigate anything I asked them too so going to wait until the 24k service in a month or so.
 
Classic pandas have this problem too. I also only notice it when downshifting and it is avaoidable if you change smoothly and slowly. next time your out, when you drive it and change into third, just before you slip it in to third give a quick gentle dab on the brake pedal, just helps to bring the speed of the shafe the gear is on down a little bit.

chauspain - are you in Aldershot
 
Problem is no modern gearbox should 'crunch' when used sensibly (changing too quick results in a crunch known as 'beating the syncho' which obviously isn't sensible). Each time is baulks or refuses to go in, damage to the synchro and/or gears is resulting. Eventually this will lead to a catastrophic failure.

We're planning on keeping the 100hp for many years so my concern is while the damage might not be problematic now, a few years out of warranty could leave me facing a bill for a new gearbox.
 
Classic pandas have this problem too. I also only notice it when downshifting and it is avaoidable if you change smoothly and slowly. next time your out, when you drive it and change into third, just before you slip it in to third give a quick gentle dab on the brake pedal, just helps to bring the speed of the shafe the gear is on down a little bit.

chauspain - are you in Aldershot

Never does it when downshifting and only way to avoid it on the upshift is to go so slowly, the car nearly looses all forward momentum. Definately not right IMHO.
 
That's interesting, it sounds a bit like my car. I got my 100HP in March (just before yours was purchased), and have problems with the gearbox crunching. Our cars may have even come over on the same boat, so I wonder if there was a batch with gearbox problems?

On my one I find that 2nd is bad as well, but it's VERY intermittent. Sometimes I can't get it in, sometimes it makes a horrible noise, and occasionally it jumps out of 2nd when I lift the clutch up.

I took it to my dealer who kindly took it for a drive with me, but it was flawless during the drive :(. During the summer it seemed to be worse during colder weather so I was hoping that it would be really bad in the winter, but it seems to be better in the winter. It seems to be at its worst between approx 5 and 15 degrees C. It can be very bad when the car is still cold, but does occassionally happen when it is fully warmed up. I have spent a lot of time trying to reproduce it, but nothing seems to reproduce it consistantly, it seems to be completely random. It's really frustrating because it was (and still is) a new car, and it should be right.
 
I had/have this problem on my 100HP (58 registered bought new in October 2008) - graunchy change from second to third especially when box is cold. The clutch was dragging and was replaced under warranty just after the first annual service at about 10500 miles. Other symptom was unavoidable crunch going into reverse when stationary. Change of clutch improved it noticeably but has not cure it completely. I think this is to do with the 100HP's six-speed box.
 
Only 700 miles on my 100hp so far, no graunches going into reverse or third but I'd say 3rd was the least sweetest of the gears going in, curiously most cars I've owned seem to have had a gear which didn't feel quite so sweet as the rest.
I do seem to have a rattley tappety engine when it first starts in this cold weather, does pass within a quarter of a mile so guess that's OK.
The box on the 1.2 which was a bit stiff to start with has really eased off now though again sometimes there's that slight feeling that 3rd isn't the knife into butter more like into a sponge.
 
My 08 100HP also crunched into third gear, when shifting both up and down the box. Took it to the dealer who adjusted the linkages first which seemed to sort the problem for a while but the problem came back. Second time they replaced the third gear as the synchro had gone. No problems since. All done under warranty.
 
My dad's '06 MX-5 has crunched into 2nd from new and is still working fine after over 20k miles. No catastrophic failure.

My '98 MX-5 crunched into 2nd & reverse from 77k miles to 107k miles. No catastrophic failure.

My '02 Fiesta Zetec-S crunched into 3rd & reverse from 18k miles to 50k+ miles. No catastrophic failure.

Am I worried that my 100hp's gearbox occasionally crunches...?

No.

If you don't want to feel mechanical things going on, buy a slushbox automatic!! hehe :) ;)
 
I've gone through two sets of 3rd gear synchros on separate C514-6 gearboxes that I've fitted to my cinq. First one was from a Punto Sporting & the latest is from a 27k panda 100hp.

The bottom line is synchro on 3rd (and 4th after enough miles) is weak on the 6-speed. Get it back to the dealer. They know about this - most dealers carry sync rings as stock.

Another thing that I've discovered they've failed to fix is the naff delrin clutch release fork pivot bushes which fill with water, swell and cause the clutch to not release/weigh a ton/eat cinq clutch cables. Again all dealers stock the upgraded sintered bronze bushes.
 
I've gone through two sets of 3rd gear synchros on separate C514-6 gearboxes that I've fitted to my cinq. First one was from a Punto Sporting & the latest is from a 27k panda 100hp.

The bottom line is synchro on 3rd (and 4th after enough miles) is weak on the 6-speed. Get it back to the dealer. They know about this - most dealers carry sync rings as stock.

Another thing that I've discovered they've failed to fix is the naff delrin clutch release fork pivot bushes which fill with water, swell and cause the clutch to not release/weigh a ton/eat cinq clutch cables. Again all dealers stock the upgraded sintered bronze bushes.

Thanks for the useful info - at least I now know it's a weak point and shall persue it with the dealer (once I've found a new one) at the 1st service in April.

Anyone that isn't concerned about crunching when engaging gears either must trade in their cars before the end of the warranty or have large wedge of spare cash for a future gearbox rebuild
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My dad's '06 MX-5 has crunched into 2nd from new and is still working fine after over 20k miles. No catastrophic failure.

My '98 MX-5 crunched into 2nd & reverse from 77k miles to 107k miles. No catastrophic failure.

My '02 Fiesta Zetec-S crunched into 3rd & reverse from 18k miles to 50k+ miles. No catastrophic failure.

Am I worried that my 100hp's gearbox occasionally crunches...?

No.

If you don't want to feel mechanical things going on, buy a slushbox automatic!! hehe :) ;)

I think this is to do with feeling the right things going on.
 
My previous Panda, a 4x4 Climbing, had a crunch on changing gear too rapidly, happened from new.
Eventually I found that the gearbox was about 10% low on oil and topping it up improved the gearchange a great deal. No evidence of an oil leak, so, unless the oil had evaporated, the fill at the factory must have been incorrect.
 
My previous Panda, a 4x4 Climbing, had a crunch on changing gear too rapidly, happened from new.
Eventually I found that the gearbox was about 10% low on oil and topping it up improved the gearchange a great deal. No evidence of an oil leak, so, unless the oil had evaporated, the fill at the factory must have been incorrect.

Ah, I might check my gearbox oil, or get it checked when it's serviced. Even if it is fixed though, it will still leave me a bit worried about the damage that has been done. When I picked my car up none of my fluids were where I would expect them. Coolant was quite a distance from max, clutch fluid was (and still is) only just above min, tyre pressures were all around 20psi (should be over 30psi), and I can't remember where the oil was.
 
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