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toe parallel camber-1
Technical 100HP - Camber issues / advice
- Thread starter Stu DemonD
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Technical 100HP - Camber issues / advice
Dunno. Looks like possibly rear adjusters and perhaps some bumpstops?
Other option is pillowball top mounts, depends how much you want to spend really.
Will that work with the type of top mounts the Panda has?
Would look like they'd need something similar to what some Clio guys run
Tis a weird setup as it looks like you can adjust castor but nothing else on the stock ones.
I guess you'd need to identify if there is anything out there.
I guess you'd need to identify if there is anything out there.
I very much doubt that there's anything out there for the Panda.
All depends upon how much negative camber you want. Surely for the road you aren't going to be looking for more than 1.5 deg neg?
Toe makes a difference to turn in. Try lessening the toe, try running it parallel, given the 500's relatively good stability (though short-ish) wheelbase it ought to be fine. I guess it depends upon how much you want to really try and lessen the understeer.
Toe makes a difference to turn in. Try lessening the toe, try running it parallel, given the 500's relatively good stability (though short-ish) wheelbase it ought to be fine. I guess it depends upon how much you want to really try and lessen the understeer.
The 500 is terrible in terms of stability!
But that's more down to the rear suspension. I wouldn't want go extreme, just make it a bit better.
Well, more toe is going to increase understeer and I'm sure you'll agree it's bad enough for that already.
Maybe just lessen it a bit, run minimal toe-in.
Maybe just lessen it a bit, run minimal toe-in.
Tbh I'd just go to Demon Tweeks and say give me a nice setup which isn't going to kill tyres.
My reason for getting aftermarket suspension would be for two reasons
1. OEM Fiat suspension is ****
2. OEM Fiat suspension seems to be make out of cheese.
I **** you not, drive over bumpy enough rumble strips (the ones where the speed limit changes down) at said speed limit and you can feel wheels leaving terra firma and car starting to squirrel. Under fairly moderate braking pressure on the rumble strips the hazard lights will activate as well.......
I think that's fine. If I pay to get my geo done, though I tend to go with a list of what settings I want, but as you say you don't want anything too mad. In all honesty if the car was setup bang on the OEM settings rather than within a mile or two as per the manual, then I'll bet it will transform the car. Never seen such wide tolerances as there were on the Panda.
Perhaps cheese has a bit more give in it than normal materials you'd expect suspension components to be made of?
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had the camber bolts today fitted and tracking done e.t.c. off out for a spin now will give feedback later!
OP
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Good man, looking forward to the results
Just saw this thread.
The camber you have is less than I run on my Clio, I run 2° negative camber, and to achieve this I fitted Eibach camber bolts from Venom Motorsport which was cheapest I found at about £22 delivered.
To buy the correct bolts you need to go down a size, for example the Clio uses 14mm bolts, so you use a 12mm camber bolt. It is in effect a 12mm bolt with a cam on it that when fitted in the top strut hole and then rotated moves the strut in and out to the desired camber setting.
Clio also runs 1° 30mins degrees negative standard at the rear.
I also run Eibach camber bolts on front our Civic type-r, with about 1°30mins negative, same rear using adjustable top arms.
Our FTO has Cusco coil-overs with adjustable top mounts, and again runs 2° negative at front and using the standard fully adjustable multi-link rear suspension set to 1°30mins.
All our cars run 10mins tow out at front, and all get even tyre wear.
It's toe out that will destroy the inside of tyres, and too much toe in that gets the outside edge. Unless running over 2° camber, will have little effect on wear rates.
The Panda if like the 500, uses a very small 10mm bolt on the struts, and therefore you need to run an 8mm camber bolt, which goes against what you think should be fitted to hold the damper in place, but I know one guy with a 500 Abarth running Gaz suspension has fitted camber bolts now over a year with no problems.
Even the 500Trofeo race cars used an adjustable shim on the damper to increase camber as the top mount design doesn't allow it even with the Abarth produced solid top mounts. The Clio is like this and apart from the Dutch made AST top mounts that Maxi put up which can be rotated so you get castor change as well as camber, the bolts are only way forward apart from old school way of slotting the holes, getting required setting, welding on a washer so that when ever they come off can be refitted in same position.
The camber you have is less than I run on my Clio, I run 2° negative camber, and to achieve this I fitted Eibach camber bolts from Venom Motorsport which was cheapest I found at about £22 delivered.
To buy the correct bolts you need to go down a size, for example the Clio uses 14mm bolts, so you use a 12mm camber bolt. It is in effect a 12mm bolt with a cam on it that when fitted in the top strut hole and then rotated moves the strut in and out to the desired camber setting.
Clio also runs 1° 30mins degrees negative standard at the rear.
I also run Eibach camber bolts on front our Civic type-r, with about 1°30mins negative, same rear using adjustable top arms.
Our FTO has Cusco coil-overs with adjustable top mounts, and again runs 2° negative at front and using the standard fully adjustable multi-link rear suspension set to 1°30mins.
All our cars run 10mins tow out at front, and all get even tyre wear.
It's toe out that will destroy the inside of tyres, and too much toe in that gets the outside edge. Unless running over 2° camber, will have little effect on wear rates.
The Panda if like the 500, uses a very small 10mm bolt on the struts, and therefore you need to run an 8mm camber bolt, which goes against what you think should be fitted to hold the damper in place, but I know one guy with a 500 Abarth running Gaz suspension has fitted camber bolts now over a year with no problems.
Even the 500Trofeo race cars used an adjustable shim on the damper to increase camber as the top mount design doesn't allow it even with the Abarth produced solid top mounts. The Clio is like this and apart from the Dutch made AST top mounts that Maxi put up which can be rotated so you get castor change as well as camber, the bolts are only way forward apart from old school way of slotting the holes, getting required setting, welding on a washer so that when ever they come off can be refitted in same position.
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result: huge smile on my face after panda is restored to original crispness after fitting koni/eibach then camber bolts-toe parallel and -1 camber. handling is amazing feels very 'sure footed' again even at speed/cornering. well worth every penny and the suspension has removed the 'pogo' totally. its amusing to watch everyone else brake at roundabouts and know i dont need to! lol. Big shout out to randysbits for all his help regarding this issue-thats one of the things ive found about the fiat forum here and in person at brooklands-very friendly bunch of peeps.
Good stuff
To be fair when I drove the 100hp I didn't need to back off through the roundabout and I don't tend to back off for roundabouts I know in my 500 due to it being overtyred All this talk of camber bolts and proper dampers makes me want my dampers to fail so I can get them done under warranty and replace them with something decent and ebay the replacements on.....
randysbits
New member
Good to hear !
how much have you turned the dampers by ? a quarter ?? or are you still bedding in at the moment ???Compared to an older Fiat, the Panda really does feel far more refined with this set up, and with geo settings dialled in, it is the icing on the cake
Feel free to hit the "thank" button -
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/266644-fitting-new-shocks-springs.html
Just one other thing, did whoever set you geometry, mark the bolt and strut to line back up when the leg is removed ? if not, you can do this yourself with the wheel off and use a pointed drift / centre punch :idea:
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dampers as hard as they'll go after quite a few miles bed in-feels like im driving my old modded 1275 gt till the boys in blue objected lol
As always, it's great to read your posts :up:
A guy I used to work with had a Clio 172 with coilovers which had been set up by Mark Fish and the way it handled (from the passenger seat) was just freaking amazing. He braked so hard my legs started lifting up towards the dash, I so much as look at the brake pedal on a road that isn't billiard table smooth and you can feel that the car is considering trying to swap ends. I have considered having the geometry checked because the car just doesn't feel as stable as I'd like.
