Dear All,

It took me hours to read through all of the Panda Posts and it would appear i am not alone with my issue. I will try to summarise briefly my scenario and pose some questions at the foot of this message. Honest answers greatly appreciated.

I purchased a Brand New Fiat Panda Eleganza on a "54" Plate in September 2004 for my wife. It currently has 41,000 miles on the clock with the majority of the mileage made up of stright line motorway driving. The car was serviced for the first 2 years by Fiat, thereafter the vehicle was serviced by myself as i don't mind getting my hands dirty.

In the last 3 weeks the car has developed an intermittent fault wherby you can drive the car for days at a time with no issues then suddenly, whether going left, right, in reverse or straight ahead a "ping" comes from the dashboard with a red triangle and a message indicating "Steering Fail".

Hoping it would go away, this morning whilst driving, the "ping" and message was followed by the steering becoming very heavy at low speeds. After switching the engine on-off it appears that the intermittent fault has now become permanent i.e. The power assisted steering is no longer power assisted. I drove the 4 miles or so to the dealership this morning and the only real issue was that the steering was very heavy (by modern standards) when turning corners.

Conclusion, the electronic steering unit/motor has failed (looks like the dashboard message was right after all!). Replacement cost £589.60.

Breakdown of costs:
£35.00 + VAT 6.13 = £41.13 for a Diagnostic Check - A Guy with a monster ipod connected his electronic cable to a socket next to the steering column for the two to "talk to each other". A message appeared on the ipod, took all of 2 minutes for the unit/motor fail message to appear on the ipod screen. Not exactly brain surgery for £41.13.

£396.78 + VAT 69.44 = £466.22 for the electronic steering unit/motor.

£70.00 + VAT 12.25 = £82.25 for 1 Hours Franchised Mechanics Labour

I am somewhat upset that a car that is not quite 4 years old with only 41,000 on the clock needs its steering unit replacing at a cost to me of £589.60.

My wife has just decided that she would like a Fiat 500. Having just discovered that the Fiat 500 is essentialy the same chassis and base mechanics (including the steering unit) of a Fiat Panda with the 500 shape "attached" to it you can imagine my concern.

Questions:
1) How common is this fault with Fiat's?
2) Is the electronic steering unit/motor product not fit for purpose? I would not expect to change this every 41,000 miles.
3) Is the manufacturer aware of this "common" issue?
4) Should there not be a Manufacturer Recall?
5) I have begrudgingly agreed for the work to commence (what else can i do?), would you contact Fiat directly and ask for a part/full assistance towards the costs?

On a side point, the four other faults/issues/irritations with this Panda since purchase:

1) The power steering progressively "wears" the inside shoulders of both front tyres over time. Balancing/Wheel Alignment checks have discounted any other possible reasons.
2) After 2 years and 1 month, 24,000 miles, the complete light stalk/arm needed replacing because the headlights would switch off for no reason whilst travelling. Especially exciting when coming down country lanes at midnight.... Not! After heated discussions with the Franchise a 2 year service was negotiated for £260.00 which meant the light stalk/arm would be replaced under warranty. Strange that the cost for part,vat and fitting pretty much came to the same figure.
3) After 2 years and 6 months, 30,000 miles, the boot handle is showing intermittent opening efficiency i.e. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have worked out the by pushing the handle away from you before pulling it towards you, does the trick. However, after reading other posts this also looks like a potential future expensive replacement repair.
3) After 3 Years, 35,000 miles the exhaust started top communicate via the means of morse code against the underside of the car body. Exhaust clamp had "rusted away". I puchased a replacement clamp and fitted it myself for £1.02.

Anticipated Thanks.

Frustrated Fiat Fool

cor blimey, first post and it's an epic!!! welcome, and i hope we can give you some answers

the steering issue has started to rear it's head on more than a few cars, however as young emma on this thread:

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-new/150959-need-some-advice-next-hour.html

has found, the right letter to the right person, can yield a pretty good result.

the tyre wear issue has plagued many a 100hp owner on the forum, there are as you say numerous threads about it, but afaik yours is the first eleganza to suffer from it.

the stalk issue too was one identified early on, it appears the part is common to the punto, and caused isses there too. some i believe have had it done under warranty, but more of that later....

the boot, ah the boot, so many have had the problem, me included, it's a microswitch inside, that requires the whole handle to be swapped over.

now the exhaust one, that's one that hasn't come back for a while, initially we were getting a lot of owners reporting a "machine gun" sound under the car, esp in the wet, going through puddles, i can only presume it was early cars, like yours and mine (though i never got the noise) and a modified mounting was used from there on.

i would imagine fiat are very aware that there are issues surround a lot of these components and their failure at what are relativly low miles/year. i've had a clutch, an a/c compressor, waterpump and microswitch all replaced under warrenty. when the waterpump failed again this year, out of warrenty, fiat uk picked up the full bill, parts and labour, not as much as doing the steering, but £400 odd is still a lot.

i can only recommend that you follow emmas lead, and write/call the head office, open a case file, and present your problems to them. some dealers, as i found out are a bit reluctant to do this themselves (i can think of one who made it quite difficult and long winded), and others are very much onside and willing to help out

good luck

jai

edit: currently the mileage on the 04 eleganza is about 33000

2nd edit: sheesh, i need to learn to put it all down in one go! anyway, my mrs was also considering a 500, but...despite the niggles and issues, she loves her ele, and wants to hold on to her a while longer. i think it being her first ever brand new car is a big part of it too.

Modern cars are expensive to run & maintain, why did you not take out a cover plan after the warranty was up, many owners here do and its worthwhile....search the forum for prices/examples of these plans.

As for taking a warranty when the two year one expired, I suppose that's a fair question/statement? As any insurance salesman would say, you can never have too much cover but where do you draw the line?

In response:

1) I was quoted £300+ per annum for a warranty which i thought was somewhat expensive.
2) My past experience of warranties are that they don't touch some of the important parts like the clutch, the brakes, the ecu etc. The bulk of them ask for the car to be serviced by a garage, of their choice at their prices. I always service my own vehicles, brake pads, exhausts, oil, fluids etc. On the basis I know my way round the wear and tear items of a vehicle it doesn't seem value to money to me.
3) Steering is somewhat a major part of a vehicle don't you think? Thus, I repeat, I would not expect to replace the steering unit every 40,000 miles or so on any car.... would you?

I have bought many New vehicles, of many ages, over many years and not one of them has ever had this problem until now.

Perhaps i'm unlucky or perhaps this is a fault that is chosen to be ignored by the manufacturer. I'm not sure?

I have just had a glance at the Punto forum and a similar incident seems to be repeated time and time again.

Just a coincidence?

Thanks for your reply anyway

Electric steering is becoming more & more widespread (due to enviromental reasons mainly) so you will see faults like this more & more.

3) Steering is somewhat a major part of a vehicle don't you think? Thus, I repeat, I would not expect to replace the steering unit every 40,000 miles or so on any car.... would you?

How did I manage to miss this topic?

Young Emma! Jai I like

I got quoted £900 to have assembly unit and electric motor changed. Wrote to fiat got no reply so phoned spoke to a guy called Jameal (spelt wrong) who sorted it all out for me so now im just paying for the labour and for fiat to ring me when parts are in. Like you my car was low mileage only 22,000 so I were a bit miffed too. When you speak to fiat remind them taht its unsafe. I did state that my car was off road and I wasn't using it

EmmaM88 said:

3) Steering is somewhat a major part of a vehicle don't you think? Thus, I repeat, I would not expect to replace the steering unit every 40,000 miles or so on any car.... would you?

Click to expand...

Agreed. No you wouldn't expect to have to change it every 40,000 miles.

Jon.

Young Emma,

The Fiat Dealership in Wolverhampton have called me today. The sentence started with the word "...Unfortunately" which clearly means prepare for some even worse news and so it arrived...

"....The whole steering assembly needs to be replaced. This will include:
1) The Servo Steering Kit at £274.53 + VAT at £48.04 = £322.57
2) The Motor/Electronic Control Unit at £390.87 + VAT at £68.40 = £459.27
3) A Bolt Clamping Kit at £13.07 + VAT at £2.29 = £15.36
4) 1.5 Hours Labour at £70.00 per hour = VAT £105.00 + VAT at £18.38 = £123.38

so the new Grand Total is £920.58, Is that alright?"

Imagine my reply...

Present situation:
1) Vehicle is sitting at the dealership whilst they wait for me to make a decision.
2) I have called Fiat on their free number (from a BT Landline) on 00800 004 0040 option 2 - this takes you to the call centre in Milan, where i have been transferred back to Slough in the UK.
3) I am now waiting for another return call for a decision as how to progress.

I don'y particularly want to pick a fight with anyone but want springs to mind is whether or not the steering column and associated parts are fit for purpose. My belief is that they are not.

A mechanic, off the record, has just said they are starting to see more and more Panda's with this issue and he was now wondering whether it was a matter of when, rather than if the steering fails on all of them. I am not into speculation but it does not sound too clever!

Young Emma, would it possible for you to send me a private email? I would like to keep you in my pocket as a joker, if you excuse the terminology i.e. where is the consistency of service/decision making if it's ok to pay for the parts for Young Emma but not for me? Something a Small Claims Court may potentially have to consider?

Regards,

Flabergasted Frustrated Fiat Fool

As of yet I would not rather get too enbroiled in your claim as I have yet had the work done to my car and don't want anything refused.

However I am happy for you to refer to my situation in your claim and will help you in that respect.

Personally I wait for the call back off Fiat and reason with them. I'm only getting the parts as i've agreed to pay £112 for labour for them to be fitted.

Also I stated that I was nearly involved in an accident because the steering completely went which is completely true. Also where my claim is quite different to yours is that my power steering problem actually started 12 months ago 4 months out of my warranty and started again recently so problem wasn't fixed so perhaps they felt more inclined to do something because of that.

Just how bad can it be driving without power steering on a Panda, my old Ducato campervan is big & heavy & has no power steering but its not a problem at all in general, just when manouevreing in a car park

Paying £900 for a new unit seems ludicrous & I wonder if it could be fixed to drive without it by disconnecting the affected parts ?

Had the same with my previous car (a Punto 1.2 ELX from '99). Cost me around €1000,- to have the whole power steering unit replaced.

Problem with mine was that it "thought" the wheels were already at full lock to the left. So it actually prevented me from steering to the left. Was quite a shocker when I discovered this problem... while heading towards a corner to the left

The light stalk and boot handle problems seem to be widespread and known by Fiat. I had both replaced under warranty.

re the power steering unit/system is there any correlation between the failures and factors such as wider wheels/lower side walls, or has units with the normal 165/55/13's been affected as well or as much as those with 14/15 or larger inch wheels?

I know that you can upgrade to 14 & 15" alloys, these can put extra pressure on the steering and suspension units and is quite often a factor in premature failure of bushes etc on almost any car where upgraded wheels and tyres are used. I know the 100HP has 15" wheels as standard but were all of the parts involved with steering and suspension upgraded as well?

Just a thought?

Obviously not then

Another new update, car is booked in for wednesday 2nd will keep you all informed

Sorry to hear of your woes.
Mine went at 12,000 miles so no question about the warranty. Now over 50,000 and no more problems.
In responce as to how hard can it be driving with no power stearing, when you're used to it, it's not a problem.
When you loose it going round a corner at 60 you need to react quickly, but that's not the worst of it.
When you've lost your power stearing and it comes back again without warning it fair old scares the living ...daylights out of you!
If your driving a car like this then have your wits about you allways.
Take care out there

lanchester01 said:

When you loose it going round a corner at 60 you need to react quickly, but that's not the worst of it.
When you've lost your power stearing and it comes back again without warning it fair old scares the living ...daylights out of you!

Click to expand...

exactly

As Emmas car is an 04 late I am wondering whether or not this may have been rectified on the later models ..mine is a 06 1.2 and has 10,500 on the clock now and just still in warranty with the second service due.. anyone know if the power steering units on the later models may also fail etc etc..TBO this a worrying trend with the panda and as I do transport my daughter and grand kids in the car I obviously want the car to be safe while I have it..

I mean it is not ideal but is still pretty safe. Its been going on that long I know how to deal with it when it plays up. My brother has just passed his test and is demanding to use my panda as he is without a car. I just can't let it happen as I don't know how he will handle it so it is unsafe in that way.

I havent transported anyone else either since its started playing up again. If i kill myself then fair enough!

EmmaM88 said:

If i kill myself then fair enough!

Click to expand...

We dont want you dead ..your a valued member of the panda section.. good luck with the claim emm and keep us in the loop..