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Technical 100hp rear sus. (500 Arbath)

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Technical 100hp rear sus. (500 Arbath)

pdtrewern

pdtrewern

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Read the top gear review in the magazine of the 500 arbath, and they said that they solved the hard suspension problem that was apparent on the panda 100 by having an anti roll bar linkage or something that they developed with ford. So that the springs no longer need to be as hard.

I wonder if this can be fitted to the panda?

Does anyone know any more?
 
I was under the car at the weekend and there's plenty of room under there for a rear ARB. Will be interesting to see if there are any further details :D

Chris
 
Yep, a lack of a rear anti-roll bar is the panda's achilles heel. You can either have acceptable ride quality and absolutely atrocious body roll coupled with death by understeer (ie MJ), or you can make the springs so stiff that it handles decently but you lose all ride quality (ie 100hp).

Interestingly looking at the mother-out-laws 01 yaris, it has the same crap rear suspension design, but there is an anti-roll bar that passes along the middle of the torsion beam and it really doesn't roll that much, so Fiat really could have designed this in for minimal cost but unfortunately they CBA i'm guessing.

I would defo buy a rear ARB kit if someone would develop it. I've had a good look under the rear of the car, but there is obviously no provision or mounting points whatsoever for it. Shame.(n)
 
How does the 100bhp feel to drive in terms of the springs?

I have no experience of it, closest I've been to variable spring stiffnesss was on a full suspension bike:eek:

But even on that, if you adjust the spring so that it's compressed and stiff, the ride goes "firm" but not bad? whereas when springs are uncompressed, the ride is bouncy, but again not "bad".
 
I personally don't think the ride on the 100 is that bad at all and I took an MJ owner out in it on a B-road blat and he said he really couldn't see that all the complaints about the ride were justified.

Of course everything's relative ;)

Chris
 
ScoobyChris said:
I personally don't think the ride on the 100 is that bad at all and I took an MJ owner out in it on a B-road blat and he said he really couldn't see that all the complaints about the ride were justified.

Of course everything's relative ;)

Chris
Click to expand...

I can't comment on the 100s ride as such, i've never been in one. I was just going by the comments on here.

But, a rear ARB would mean that everyone could have their cake and eat it IYSWIM.
 
trackdayqueen said:
Yep, a lack of a rear anti-roll bar is the panda's achilles heel. You can either have acceptable ride quality and absolutely atrocious body roll coupled with death by understeer (ie MJ), or you can make the springs so stiff that it handles decently but you lose all ride quality (ie 100hp)...
Click to expand...

Ah ha. There's one more option for those not in a hurry to get anywhere (but can go almost anywhere, less quickly). I may have the slowest model of the Panda but we do get suspension superiority! The 4x4 has a truly independent rear suspension system, and has an anti-roll bar too. Even though its 50mm higher off the ground, it rolls less than the Dynamic I tried out.
 
Bear in mind though that rollbars are not great for off road as they limit the amount of axle articulation possible to keep all 4 wheels in contact with the mucky stuff :D

Chris
 
The only time the 100hp suspension has been an issue for me was when blasting down a country lane. The car came over a short crest and 'landed' just before another crest, which made things go a bit giddy. It kinda bounced.

Other than that, no worries :)
 
Herts Hillhopper said:
Ah ha. There's one more option for those not in a hurry to get anywhere (but can go almost anywhere, less quickly). I may have the slowest model of the Panda but we do get suspension superiority! The 4x4 has a truly independent rear suspension system, and has an anti-roll bar too. Even though its 50mm higher off the ground, it rolls less than the Dynamic I tried out.
Click to expand...

Just out of interest have you got a pic or an illustration of what it looks like as i'd be interested to see it and also where the ARB mounts are.

IMO all cars should have double wishbones all round, just like the Integra. (y) Now that car seriously handles.
 
I know its not a great pic of it, but i think I can see a rear ARB running above the torsion bar.


car_photo_245292_25.jpg
 
I think the 100HP ride quality is pretty bad. The level of grip on smooth surfaces is superb but it's ability to cope with bumpy [but normally entertaining] B-roads is terrible. It's a shame because given the cars diminutive size it could be great on that kind of road.

Trackdayqueen raise an interesting point about whether, in the absence of an anti-roll bar, it is an either-or situation regarding body roll Vs grip. I had previously considered it either a cock-up on Fiats part (unlikely) or a clever bit market research that told them that this was what the target audience wanted, regardless of it's technical merit.
 
I think its all OK except for the stiffness of the rear springs. They make driving a pain on our broken town road surfaces. It is however fine for pressing on, or somewhere with good smooth roads like Milton Keynes.

Our road has 5 speed 'tables', or mountains as I call them. The TVR clears them with 1mm to spare (yes, 1mm). The Panda is painful over them at anything above a crawl - really shows up overstiff rear end. Wish there was a suspension package to solve it... might stop me spending 10k on a Clio 197 next year when the Panda is 2 years old (I set a limt of 10k for our third station/town car which the Panda is).
 
Van Diemen said:
Trackdayqueen raise an interesting point about whether, in the absence of an anti-roll bar, it is an either-or situation regarding body roll Vs grip. I had previously considered it either a cock-up on Fiats part (unlikely) or a clever bit market research that told them that this was what the target audience wanted, regardless of it's technical merit.
Click to expand...

The thing is, if you don't have a rear ARB and you want to make a FWD front engined car handle you need to stiffen up the rear end and prevent the weight transfer at the rear. Otherwise (like the MJ) all you get is understeer and appalling body roll.

So to make the 100hp with no rear ARB you need to stiffen up the springs/dampers in an effort to prevent the weight transfer.

Getting out of the panda and into the integra feels like going from one extreme to the other. The Teg has a very thick rear ARB double wishbone suspension and that thing lifts a rear wheel in the air on enthusiastic cornering. To oversteer, simply trail brake and lift off or just lift off and the rear comes round. Top fun. Try and do that in an MJ and its a real challenge.

A rear ARB could have improved things no end without unduly losing the ride quality. The mother outlaws Yaris has the same torsion beam setup (it really does look nigh on identical) but it has an ARB running through the middle of it. The Yaris rolls a hell of a lot less.

Its not so much a case of body roll vs grip, its more body roll vs predictability and balance of the car.
 
trackdayqueen said:
The thing is, if you don't have a rear ARB and you want to make a FWD front engined car handle you need to stiffen up the rear end and prevent the weight transfer at the rear. Otherwise (like the MJ) all you get is understeer and appalling body roll.

So to make the 100hp with no rear ARB you need to stiffen up the springs/dampers in an effort to prevent the weight transfer.

Getting out of the panda and into the integra feels like going from one extreme to the other. The Teg has a very thick rear ARB double wishbone suspension and that thing lifts a rear wheel in the air on enthusiastic cornering. To oversteer, simply trail brake and lift off or just lift off and the rear comes round. Top fun. Try and do that in an MJ and its a real challenge.

A rear ARB could have improved things no end without unduly losing the ride quality. The mother outlaws Yaris has the same torsion beam setup (it really does look nigh on identical) but it has an ARB running through the middle of it. The Yaris rolls a hell of a lot less.

Its not so much a case of body roll vs grip, its more body roll vs predictability and balance of the car.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with a lot of that, but my argument was simplified to working with what you have available rather than re-engineering roll bar into the solution (which is of course preferable). I would maintain that by playing with spring rates it would be possible to make a better 'real world' setup than the stock offering, even without RARB.
 
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