Hi All

My father who is not the most demon driver in the world has just picked up his Panda from Ancaster in Welling after a service. Low mileage 2nd year - 11,000 miles. They have changed the front pads stating "they were thin". I reckon this is complete bo*llo*ks and am going to speak to the service manager tomorrow. There is no way my old man could wear out a set of pads in 11K if he tried!

My Punto 1.9 HGT is still on its first set at 40K and I drive it like I stole it!

Anybody else experienced "excessive wear"???!!

Me! I had the same problem with mine (Multijet too)... Had to replace them at 12K. Worried that the 2nd set are wearing even quicker than the 1st...

My MJT started making slight rubbing noises from the front brakes about a week (100 miles) before its 24K service. The day before it became a grinding noise. Oops! I think you can work out what that meant. The pads on the nearside had worn down to the rivets and badly scored the disc. I made an appeal to FIAT, more in hope than expectation. It was declined. I must admit I was very surprised by how quickly they wore out as my wife's '98 Punto had been P/X'd against a Stilo 12 months earlier with 29K on the clock with no sign of the pads wearing and my old Uno 60DS which I owned from new went about 40K before replacing the pads and the rear shoes were replaced at the second front pad change at about 75K. When the pads on the Panda were replaced I responded to a couple of repuests for info from people who either were thinking about buying one or who had just got one with this information. This is where a site like this can be very useful as I found when I asked about the wisdom of turning my Panda over to the tender clutches of Angel Tuning only to have someone point out that the gearbox is only rated at 5nm above the max. torque of the engine.

My pads were an advise at 12k service i changed them myself genuine Fiat ones and the old ones had around 3mm left on them, i am Driving Instructor and do a lot of stop start Emergency braking so 12k not bad, discs do look worse for wear but at 36k service no probs, and gearbox is i think the 1.2 petrol one so Celtic tuning said to me Alan.

At my first service ..mileage 7.5k they reported the pads in good condition ..never the less when I come to fit my new wheels I will be fitting a set of GSR fast road pads on the panda ..had them on the stilo and was very impressed ..

The Beard said:

..... someone point out that the gearbox is only rated at 5nm above the max. torque of the engine.

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If that was the case, there would be an awful lot of owners with broken gearboxes. Manufacturers always build in a lot more safety factor than this.

Can I ask where you got the information?

I posted a question on this site as to whether the car would be easily capable of handling an increase in power to 90 hp. Someone replied that the transmission could easily handle the power and as the engine in standard form produce 145Nm but the 'box was only rated at 150Nm then excess torque would be a problem. Unfortunately, I don't remember the name. While I'm on, as I don't have my handbook available does anyone know whether the 1.3 MJT has belt or chain drive and what the recommended change mileage is?

Sorry, I was asking in case it came from a technical bulletin rather than from word of mouth. There have been plenty of 1.3 MJets remapped by the tuning firms (some of which appear to sponsor on here) without a string of failures. I wouldn't worry.

PNL said:

At my first service ..mileage 7.5k they reported the pads in good condition

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Yeah at my first service 8k miles they reported my brake pads in good condition too (with only 5% wear), but by 12k miles they were done and had to be replaced. That still puzzles me cause I didn't change my way of driving, but they didn't see any fault with the brakes. My car had its second service at 15k miles and it was reported at 40% wear (after just 3k miles ) and when I queried that they said they were "being cautious"... I'll soon be changing over my wheels for the winter, so I'll check them then, but with 18.5k miles on the clock, I'm not feeling hopeful that there'll be anything much left on them.

The MJ is chain drive

Regarding brake pad replacement, part of the problem is 12 month servicing so the dealer has to cover themselves as they won't see the car again for twelve months.....

Hope this helps, the gearbox rating can be found on a Fiat website - I think its called Fiat power train and deals with the big stuff they make. As for brake pads I'll be due a 1st service soon, so it'll be interesting to see what they say.

This it?

http://www.fptpowertrain.com/eng/applicazioni_automotive_cambi_eu_sa.htm#g39

HP. said:

If that was the case, there would be an awful lot of owners with broken gearboxes. Manufacturers always build in a lot more safety factor than this.

Can I ask where you got the information?

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Here's the thread where it was discussed before: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-new/31788-chiptuned-1-3mjet-engine.html

It links to this technical page:
http://www.fptpowertrain.com/eng/applicazioni_automotive_cambi_eu_sa.htm#g30

Thanks for the links. Does anyone actually know for sure which gearbox is fitted to the Pandas?

The gearbox is rated at 150Nm if it is to last the life of the car driven on an average duty cycle. Usually called a B10 life and at this time 10% of the units will have failed. Not sure what the automotive industry would use for a gearbox, maybe 150000-200000miles on a small car.

You could put 300Nm through it and drive it slowly a couple of times a year and it will be fine or you could put 125Nm through it almost continuously and have a shortened life expentancy.

For the brake pads the life is disappointing, but it probably makes them quite effective. For normal use I would get down the local motor factors for the pads, pay half the price and get double the life out of them. Its not unsafe and there will still be more than enough power to lock the wheels.

It's dangerous to assume that certain parts are fitted and therefore certain modifications or patterns of use are inappropriate.

I've found from Italiaspeed, speaking about the Grande Punto:

"The 5-speed gearbox for the 75 bhp 1.3 Multijet engine

The C510 is extremely easy to manoeuvre and very quiet. It has a transverse configuration with two shafts in a cascade and one differential. In this case too, the gearbox has been optimised, adopting a dual cone synchroniser on first and second, and a highly efficient reverse engagement control. Two improvements that guarantee the product's excellence where manoeuvring is concerned. Lubrication is dynamic and the oil is channelled through bore holes in the housing and on the shafts. The maximum torque transmissible is 21 kgm."

The C514 is fitted to the 1.2 8v and 1.4 8v engines:

"The 5-speed gearbox for the 1.2 8v and 1.4 8v engines

Enhanced acoustic comfort, reduced engagement effort even when cold, and more precise gear engagement. These are the advantages of the C514 gearbox (a transverse configuration with two shafts in a cascade and one differential), which was optimised by changes to: the gears, synchronisers, lubrication, internal gear control and clutch control. Combined with the 5-speed Fire 1.2 8v and 1.4 8v engines, this version represents the maximum upgrade of the gearbox in terms of transmissible torque (15 kgm)."

So, dangerously assuming things I'm going to say chances are the same gearbox is fitted to the Grande Punto 1.3 MJTD as the Panda MJTD - giving the 'box a max torque rating of 206 Nm.

Seems as if there is a lot of guesswork going on in the Fiat dealer network when it comes to brake pad replacement.
In the good old days, when you could get a Haynes manual for fairly new models of car, they quoted you a minimum thickness for the friction material left on the pad. With a bit of squinting you could just about measure this and ordered new pads when this level was reached.
Now, I'm sure the dealers have manuals that give these figures, so why don't they use them?
By the way, if anyone does have these figures for the 4x4 and 1.1 Active it would be useful for me. I have found the wear limits for the discs on the website of a brake part supplier, it is basically 2mm less than the thickness of a new disc for all the discs and models.

http://www.fptpowertrain.com/eng/applicazioni_automotive_cambi_eu_sa.htm#g30

I think the multijet has the lower torque box when fitted to the Panda.

Had a look at the FPT website and it does seem to confirm that the gearbox is only rated at 150nm so that causes some concern as to whether it will take the uprated torque of a tuned engine. It might be possible to put in an uprated gearbox and clutch but then it might just be simpler to leave the car unmolested and buy a 100hp or GP. Ah well I'll just have to keep looking at the site and see if someone can carry out the R&D for me. So anyone who has had their ECU re-mapped and feels like relating their triumphs (or ignominious failures), please feel free to share their experiences with us all. What's a little internet humiliation between friends eh?