Hi all. I'm new here - thinking about getting a panda (supasaver have some good offers), but not sure which one. I've a couple of questions that aren't covered in the reviews, road tests etc.

1. Clarkson says the petrol panda warms up really quickly (I think he said that 0-60 F was only a tad slower than 0-60mph) - what is the diesel like for warming up on a cold morning?

2. A couple of reviews have said that the diesel is noisy, and makes the car a bit front-heavy. Any views?

Thanks

Adnap.

Yep, my 1.2 Dynamic seems to warm up quite fast, but it will not pass thhe middle value on the scale. Only that the fan will work most of the time while waiting in line in the city. But it's a nice engine. However, if I were you, I'd go for the 100hp :slayer: (not available in my country). The diesel is nice (my mom has one), one of the best Diesels on the market, good mpg, but... it's a Diesel. Not so noisy, but more then the Petrol. I'd prefer the Diesel over the 1.2 (for me, there was not enaugh money ), but the 100hp should be THE CHOICE (definitively my next car ).

I've driven all 4 engine choices...

I've owned the Multijet now just over 2 years, so I've had the Winter Driving experience. And yes indeed it does take longer to warm up than the petrol in Winter. You really don't get much in the line of hot air out for the first few miles, but then again the first couple of miles from my house are all downhill off the go-faster pedal... I just stick a hat on for the first few miles and I'm warm enough. When it warms up, the needle stays right in the middle.

The grand majority of my driving is from one side of Belfast to the other (a mix of 30, 40 and 50 MPH roads) but I still get 55-60 miles to the gallon, despite the stop-start driving. A tankful gets me about 430 miles or so. On longer journeys if I hold my speed around 60 or so, I can get 70 miles to the gallon. Extremely happy with this aspect of the car and in the last month AutoExpress found it to be the most economical car that they tested.

And yes the diesel is a bit louder than petrol, but it really doesn't bother me in the slightest. True also that the diesel engine is heavier than the petrol, which is why you need more air in the front tyres than you do in the petrol versions, but the engine is torky and willing, and will allow you to happily set off at a reasonable pace out of junctions...

I'm really glad that I opted for the Multijet over the 1.2.

I would agree with Wee Smurf that the diesel takes time to warm up, sometimes up to 8 miles on a very cold winters day before the needle hits the middle on 30mph limit roads. Normally it's about 4 or 5 miles.
Don't let that put you off though because the diesel is a great engine & very economical & not to noisy.

The MJ is the better engine, technically, but the 1.2 is very underrated on this forum, in my opinion.

On my last trip from Bucharest to Istanbul I got 19km/l, 53 mpg. Yes, it's less 'economical' than the multijet, but don't forget that gasoline has a lighter density than diesel, about 15% less mass per volume, so were we to calculate fuel consumption in km per kg, the MJ and the 1.3 would have a similar consumption!*

Of course diesel have more torque at low RPM, but the 1.2 also scores really well in this area, especially when compared to other gasoline engines! And don't forget that although the CO2/km is lower with diesels, they remain more pollutant than gasoline engines. Gasoline engines have a catalytic converter. With the MJ you can opt for a DPF, but it will only filter the particulates (not the NOxes) and I doubt anyone will pay the extra ~500 euros for it.

* for actual comparable consumption we'd need to know how much crude oil was used to make 1l of fuel, taking in account any additional filtration and processing stages.

Thanks, wee smurf, doblo, soepy and all. That's useful.

The situation is that work is 10 miles away, mainly down small windy lanes or town traffic. Hence the diesel might not be able to do what it does best - better at higher speeds. Also, I live in a frost hollow, i.e. frost happens here when it doesn't nearby, so being able to clear the windows is an issue. It seems to me that although the MJ is the better car, and cheaper in terms of economy and road tax, I'm not sure it is suited to low speeds and the need for rapid de-iceing.

How does that sound?

Adnap

Remember if you get the diesel it's only £35 road tax instead of £115. No doubt over the next few years the road tax will go up for your gas guzzling 1.2s.

The diesel will probably have a better residual value too.

Soepy said:

don't forget that gasoline has a lighter density than diesel, about 15% less mass per volume, so were we to calculate fuel consumption in km per kg, the MJ and the 1.3 would have a similar consumption!

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It doesn't matter how far it goes per kg, my garage sells both in litres!

I own the 1.2 which i am very pleased with. But i think next time i will go for the MJ, the saving on road tax alone would recover almost all the cost within 5 years. I was stunned that road tax went up on the 1.2 in the last budget, if 53mpg is not eco friendly then i don't know what is .

adnap said:

Thanks, wee smurf, doblo, soepy and all. That's useful.

The situation is that work is 10 miles away, mainly down small windy lanes or town traffic. Hence the diesel might not be able to do what it does best - better at higher speeds. Also, I live in a frost hollow, i.e. frost happens here when it doesn't nearby, so being able to clear the windows is an issue. It seems to me that although the MJ is the better car, and cheaper in terms of economy and road tax, I'm not sure it is suited to low speeds and the need for rapid de-iceing.

How does that sound?

Adnap

Click to expand...

Can I just say that the Multijet Panda is really at home on small windy lanes and in the town...? I rarely ever get near a dual carriageway or motorway with mine (I'd say that less than 5% of my driving is motorway). The MPG is good in town / country driving (I've been getting close on 60 MPG with mine in town and on slow windy country roads).

As for frost, I live half way up a mountain and we tend to get harder frosts, but that hasn't been a problem for me. I just pour some luke warm water on to melt the ice on the front windows. I don't usually bother with the back window cause the back window clears really fast with the heated element. I have found that as long as you don't continually re-cycle the air in the car and instead always keep it at fresh air coming into the car, you don't have a problem with condensation, so clearing the front window is quick and easy. I didn't bother with getting air-con - I just don't think it's necessary for the Northern Ireland climate, it never really is that warm for that long.

Go on - Go for the Multijet - You'll not regret it!

don't forget aircon in the winter helps clear condensation.

I've got the diesel and i'd definitely say go for that, for winding lanes and town traffic there is no competition, because of the responsiveness in low revs it soon moves when you put your foot down to nip around traffic or overtake... without having to drop down a gear.

Its not very noisy either for a diesel, i don't even hear the engine with music on at moderate volume.

Then there is the £35 tax, and around 60mpg with mixed driving.

The only reason i would ever have gotten the 1.2 is if i wanted the eleganza (doesn't come with the 1.3)... not that the 1.2 is a bad engine of course... but given a choice...

tremtastic said:

Remember if you get the diesel it's only £35 road tax instead of £115.

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Interestingly, in the Netherlands the tax on diesels is way higher than on gasoline cars.

Go for the Diesel!

Petrol / Diesel prices are virtually the same at the moment so for a little extra purchase price you will easily get 15% more range per tank so you'll get your money back pretty fast.

Performance wise It's faster to 60 than the 1.1 and 1.2, better on the motorways, very quiet and should be cheaper to tax. Oh and it has better resale value too

Biggest mistake I made was getting the petrol version

Looks like I might be the only one to prefer the Petrol! The 1.2 is a really torquey engine for a petrol, you don't have to rev it past 3K to get the best from it as maximum torque is at 2500 rpm. It is also silent in operation and very smooth but the biggest difference is the weight. The diesel is heavier and it feels heavy at the front (as with most diesels) which makes it feel ponderous and not near as much fun as the petrols which feel light, agile and much more fun. This is only my opinion of course but apart from the fuel economy being slightly better and the diesel 'pull' I don't think the diesel is the better engine. I only do 12 miles to work a day and I much prefer the quick warm up of the petrol compared to the diesel which takes ages to get up to temperature especially in the winter months. It all depends on which values you put first - for me its was price, refinement and driver enjoyment but before you choose try both on a long test drive.

I'm loathe to go against the tide here, and I'm sure the diesel is a great engine. If I were to do longer/faster journeys, I'd go for the diesel, but at the moment, I think it's going to be a 1.1 Active: I rarely hit 40 on the way to work, so I think the MJ would be wasted. Sure, the MJ would cost about 250/year less to run, but it costs about 1k more, so that's 4 years to break even point.......

Besides, the review in Honest John does make the 1.1 sound like one heck of a car - he doesn't often praise a car that much.

Adnap.

equaliser said:

Looks like I might be the only one to prefer the Petrol!

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Uh, I guess I wasn't clear in my earlier post: I also prefer the 1.2

No - not the 1.1

The fuel consumption is really bad on it in comparison to the 1.2

At least go for the 1.2

I know the 1.2 has got more poke, but am I missing something here? I thought I'd read that there is only a 1mpg difference between the two. Given the £300 price difference......

Adnap

I had the 1.1 for a few days. I just found that the 1.1 needed so much more work in comparison... And with windy country roads you'll be forever changing gears.

Personally I'd spend the extra £300 - I think the extra £300 spent would be well worth it. It's more than just the engine...