My Engine fell out. And No this is no joke
I am just happy to be alive to tell the story. On reaching my work place this morning I selected reverse gear to back into my parking space, there was a bang and a crunching sound and the car locked up solid. On opening the bonnet I could see the engine and gearbox at a 45 degree angle, on further investigation it was apparent what was wrong the gearbox end (below the battery box) mounting bolt was sheared off allowing the engine and gearbox to drop down to very near floor level, with the resulting drop the drive shaft dislodged from the gear box twisted and locked up the wheel.
Now can anybody envisage what might have happened at motorway speeds, it’s just to horrifying to imagine.
We looked all over the car park for the lower part of the sheared of bolt and nut it was not found, so we have to assume it broke prier to me getting to work (this means not when I put the car in reverse gear)
The Car: Fiat Panda Eleganza 2004 mileage just over 8000 one owner from new, me. This car has spent the last two winters in my garage it has never been used when there was salt on the roads. Until this morning it looked and drove like new.
I do not drive it aggressively I never spin tyres corner or brake hard the car has had a very easy life, I estimate the car has spent about nine months on the road the rest of the time locked away in my garage.
Me: I have spent most of my life in the motor trade, as a technician with over 25 years with my present employer. With a total of 40 years in the industry, I am 56 years old,
I do know what I am talking about. This was a catastrophic failure of the engine support bolt.
Car History: before I was handed the Keys to my new car, I was told the gearbox had an oil leak that needed to be fixed before I took delivery. Now I must assume the gearbox was removed to fix this (can you see where I am coming from with this I am not prepared to name the garage at this stage)
Now back to this morning: A phone call to the supplying dealership, Answer please calls the AA out. Ok so I called the AA Answer be with you in 30 mins (good service) loaded car up, off to the Fiat Garage. Question do you have a curtsey car for me. Answer sorry sir No there are none available at the moment. Next back in the AA truck off to pick up Avis hire car. Fiat will only pay 48 hours hire car fee
A phone call late this afternoon to the fiat garage. Question is my car fixed. Answer No, parts on v.o.r maybe in tomorrow Saturday.
Question do you now have a curtsey car for me. Answer No sorry sir call the AA see if they will extend the 48 hours hire car service.
A phone call to the AA. Answer sorry sir the agreement with fiat is for 48 hours only try Fiat customer services.
A phone call to fiat UK. I told them the story and they have opened an incident enquiry given me an incident number. But to the question of can you extend if need be the 48 hours avis car hire sorry sir please phone the Fiat Garage again and ask for the dealer principal.
A phone call to the Fiat garage. Question can I please speak with the Principal. Answer sorry he is not in Can any one else help.
I did get to speak with a manager who confirmed that maybe the parts might arrive with them to morrow but can’t say for sure. It might be Tuesday before we get them.
Question will you stand for the car hire charge if it goes’s above 48 hours. Answer: sorry sir I am not sure maybe Fiat will pay.

1: I feel the need to warn other people about this problem.
2: if the repair go’s over 48 hours do you think it is fair to expect me to pay Avis for the hire car.

so is the suggestion that after the gearbox was refitted incorrectly, rather than a manufacturing fault with the bolt itself, ie: the correct bolt, made correctly fitted incorrectly?

sounds bad, whats worse is that just that one bolt going has caused so much movement in the engine and gearbox, having a panda indentical to yours, makes it all the more worrying, i will look under the bonnet tmrw. be intresting to see how many bolts can find that hold engine in...

turboned said:

be intresting to see how many bolts can find that hold engine in...

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3

hmmmm, so bolt shears, somewhere, but engine doesnt drop till stationary, and reverse selected

what are initial thoughts mechanic? bad fitting? poor part?

could be nut too tight

At this moment in time I am not in a position to comment on the engine only falling upon selecting reverse, will post findings when I know more. You’re thought about the hire car?

i would imagine in the first instance, fiat would folloow their procedures and only pay for the 2 days, beyond you pick up the bill. however, and again this is a guess, i would think if the fault with the bolt is shown to be theirs i'm sure they would agree ro reimburse you.

turboned said:

hmmmm, so bolt shears, somewhere, but engine doesnt drop till stationary, and reverse selected

what are initial thoughts mechanic? bad fitting? poor part?

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I wouldn't worry about the number of bolts. Remember the DC10-30? Had on the rear engine only four bolts holding the jet engine pushing a bit harder than a Panda engine.

Anyway, I would report this to VOSA. Also I would ask Fiat to clearify the the cause and if they are not 'playing ball' report it to one of the car magazines. I would not accept that they do not have a courtesy car for you. Just threaten them with going public and sueing them.

After reading that post on the "1.1 piston slap" you should be happy you got a car for the first two days! The guy from that post didn't get a car for 4 weeks or so (can't remember exactly; read the post for details)

L.

If it was me, I would name and shame through any media outlet open to me.
I do know that the bolts used are shear bolts and are meant to snap under set pressure, so that in a heavy shunt the engine will tuck under the car and not crush the driver and front passenger

1) I would reckon the bolt was not fitted correctly, i.e. cross threaded. which would put extra pressure on the bolt, and cause it to snap.

2) What I cant get my head round is that one bolt snapping could cause such a failure, one can only assume that there will be at least another 3 bolts holding the engine, more than enough to keep it in place.

3) Fiat Customer Services are as much use as an ashtray in a motorbike, for as much as my wife likes her panda the one thing that will stop me from ever buying another Fiat is the total lack of intrest shown by their Customer Service Unit.

4) I reckon if you let the Garage and Fiat know the matter is in the hands of a Lawyer you will soon get a car........it works i've done it.

I would wait until all the facts were available/known first before shouting...as mechanic said;

"At this moment in time I am not in a position to comment on the engine only falling upon selecting reverse, will post findings when I know more"

I have a ashtray on my GS850

Update: At 9.30am Saturday morning I was told my car was waiting for parts, (they should be with us by Thursday sir) Now to cut a long story short and several phone calls by my self and wife to Fiat Garage, Fiat, Customer Service, and more. The Phone rang to say my car will by ready to collect at 12.30 it turns out that they had all the parts bar one engine mounting.
And they found that, Not wise to say perhaps, lets just say I collected my car left the hire car with them and drove home feeling a lot better than the day before.
On Monday I will check with garage to try to ascertain the cause of the problem. Also will give the car a good check over myself and post my findings when I know more.

This is one of the more serious problems I've read about, and it was taken car of in only 2 days?! Amazing.

Highlander said:

3) Fiat Customer Services are as much use as an ashtray in a motorbike, for as much as my wife likes her panda the one thing that will stop me from ever buying another Fiat is the total lack of intrest shown by their Customer Service Unit.

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Seconded.
I have a 2005 Panda DualLogic and a 2000 Multipla. FIAT CS and my dealer refuse to acknowledge that my Multipla falls within the VIN range for the current front suspension recall. Previous dealings with FIAT CS have left me fuming too .
Bought the Multipla for its practicality as well as its looks . Bought the Panda last year as it looks a good little car and looks good . I'm just about to get a replacement for the Multipla but will now steer well clear of FIAT. Probably go for a Japanese MPV or estate - will doubtless be more reliable too. I like the image and originality of FIAT cars but they've lost a customer due to their poor attitude to customer service .

hmm,
FWIW, our commuting car is a Panda, but the family car is an MPV like you have.

I checked out the Galaxy's, Tourans and Mazda's etc and don't regret for one moment, deciding to go for a Toyota Verso. OK, so I have the T180 - that puts a grin on your face when you hit the pedal .. but whatever the model, they are all essentially the same inside.

Just remember that the rearmost 6th and 7th seats are for children you wish to punish - and are not really adult size as Toyota would like you to believe.

I am also reliably informed that Toyota's don't break and when you call Toyota CS, they are charming, very knowledgeable and if they don't know something deeply technical - they find someone who does, and then call you back.

I find this thread very disturbing! Not only for the amount of damage caused by the failure of 1 engine mounting bolt but also that it happened to someone in the trade with a mechanically sympathetic driving style and a relatively pampered car...

Then of course there is the... 'well you bought one now, we have your money so what do we care' attitude of FIAT. It will get to the stage where it won't matter how good the cars are or become if the backup, when you have a problem, is this poor. I though there were claims recently that they were going to clean up their act.

10 years of Skoda (Favorit's & Felecia) ownership and I never needed to contact customer services because the dealer always sorted it... yes if the butt of humor brand can do it why can't FIAT? Its not really that difficult is it really...

hmm said:

Previous dealings with FIAT CS have left me fuming too .

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Enlighten us.

T14086 said:

Enlighten us.

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T14086

I wish all FIAT dealers and contacts were as helpful as you are on this forum.

But as you ask, let me see if I can remember the experiences I've had during six years of Multipla ownership.

auto italia near Hampton Court serviced it at 12k miles but forgot to replace various filters - fuel, air and pollen - they said they ordered the 6k service parts by mistake, though the multipla doesn't require a 6k service. There was also no check-sheet for me to look at after the service. It took over 3 months and four letters to get the service completed - or not, cos they never did.

In fact the Multipla developed clutch hydraulics trouble, so I tried auto italia in Epsom. They were very helpful, but discovered that the clutch/brake fluid sensor was disconnected, and really laid into their Hampton Court colleagues - seems there are different levels of dealer accreditation. “You’ve got to be careful which branch you take your car to” was one comment. The car was off the road for a couple of weeks.

In the end FIAT offerred me, as a gesture of goodwill, 10% off parts at the next service. Their generosity knows no bounds.

The clutch hydraulics went a second time; again the work took longer than was reasonable and a 'reconditioned' clutch was fitted.

Then there was the time the rpm sensor failed causing the car to repeatedly die without warning. The car was with the dealer (Kingston upon Thames) over a week before they were able to fit a new one.

Then of course there's the front springs recall. My chassis number is within the range of those recalled, but the dealer (Wilsons Epsom) won't accept this (the computer says 'No' ). I tried FIAT CS who could find details of the recall numerically before it and the one after it - but not this one itself. I have to wait for the letter.

So far there have been no issues with the Panda (fingers crossed) but I dread having to deal with FIAT if there ever are any.

As another contributor has said, Toyotas don't break and their CS are polite and helpful. Think I'll get an Avensis estate then.