Styling LED DRLs
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Styling LED DRLs
Alexiloki
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They can be changed to LED's.....however doing so they are officially illegal for Road use, can cause a mot failure of spotted and if found after a accident your insurance will not pay out. Use at your own risk.
Number plate bulbs: pop the covers under the boot trim off with a small flat bladed screwdriver (there's a small cut out for you to do so), the bulb is held in by a metal piece on each end, hold one aside and pull bulb out. Hold the one aside again to put the bulb back in, recover and job done.
Number plate bulbs: pop the covers under the boot trim off with a small flat bladed screwdriver (there's a small cut out for you to do so), the bulb is held in by a metal piece on each end, hold one aside and pull bulb out. Hold the one aside again to put the bulb back in, recover and job done.
Hi.
I've never heard of that TBH, any way of pointing to a link where it explains they are illegal.
I replaced the standard 21/5watt DRL/Sidelamp with approved LEDs within a week of buying the Panda, they were bought from a car bulb specialist (I can find the link later) they are no brighter than standard fitting LEDs used on the majority of other vehicles, but are better than the OE filament bulbs.
I also fitted LED number plate lamps I didn't want to fit ones that were too bright, in the main to take away the dull yellow looking effect from old bulbs, the ones I have now look exactly the same as on new BMW & Audis the snag though they are non canbus, so I had to fit a 22ohm 10 watt resistor in parallel with the bulbs, this is neatly epoxy glued to the inside of the boot door, the resistor only gets slightly warm and no canbus bulb warnings come up.
Incidentally, my Rover 75 had LEDs virtually all round (not headlamps though), insurance were notified and the MOT was passed each year with no issues, the only insurance stipulation was bulbs has to be certified with an E number, hard to find on eBay but the specialist companies sell them, hop this helps.
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Hi you say you fitted approved LEDs, can you provide a link to these? You quite rightly state that replacement lamps must be "E" marked. This means they meet the appropriate standard. The current standards do not include LED replacement lamps. None of the major manufacturers (Phillips, Ring, Osram) offer approved replacement LEDs. Modern cars with LEDs are legal becase the entire light fitting is designed for LEDs the LEDs in it will not be replacable. You can buy "E" marked DRL light units, but not replacement lamps. Just because you have not been caught (e.g. Rover) does not mean you have not broken the law.
The law is in the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations which states that lamps must be approved and "E" (or equivelent) marked.
Robert G8RPI.
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Hi Robert.
The ones I used were actually Ring. The 21/5 equivalent are marked such. No idea if they are fakes but I'd think it hard to prove.
The ones I used were actually Ring. The 21/5 equivalent are marked such. No idea if they are fakes but I'd think it hard to prove.
I can't find any "E" marked LED replacement lamps on the Ring website. Even the very latest "filament" types which are" Designed to directly replace a standard bulb by meeting the lumen outputs set by ECE standard" are noted as "LEDs are not E marked and are for off road use only"
http://www.ringautomotive.com/uk/products/Cars+-open-12V-close-/LED+Bulbs/Filament+LEDs/RW3803FSLED
Robert G8RPI.
You are quite right and it looks as if I have been scammed with the 21/5 LED equivalent...... Now this begs the question that I have fitted bulbs in good faith so where do I stand. My insurance correctly stated to use type approved bulbs, and my search came up with these I have, snag is that the company I got them from has gone. The bulbs have an E1 marking, so do I leave them and plead ignorance or what, the number plate festooned I realize have no markings.
Incidentally I'd never consider modifying headlights as HIS kits are actually now illegal due to light scatter.
babbo_umbro
Established member
Greater and more controllable light output with less power drain essentially. The added longevity is just a bonus.
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Soundmixer
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According to UKMOT.com
"[FONT=PT Sans Narrow, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DLRs are designed to make vehicles more visible during daylight hours and are now common on vehicles of testable age. DRLs themselves are not covered by the manual and are therefore not testable items."
I changed the DRLs and the fogs on my 66 4x4 the day I collected it, having checked out fittings and legality well in advance.
Babbo Umbro, the reason I did it was that they last a lot longer, use less power and are whiter (not blue). The beam pattern and range is the same, the DRLs go to 5 watts when the headlamps are on and are just more easily seen than the standard bulbs. I was never a big fan of DRLs until I got the Panda but now I love them, especially the LED ones. I also changed the main bulbs to Phillips Whitevisions to make them whiter with a little more range, as I do a lot of night driving on B roads in the winter and need good coverage.
The new Panda also allows you to have everything on, mains, DRL and fogs, at the same time which looks really cool for photos! It also upsets overbright Range Rovers and BMW warthogs, hee hee!
None of these make the car any faster or pull more chicks!
Euan
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"[FONT=PT Sans Narrow, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DLRs are designed to make vehicles more visible during daylight hours and are now common on vehicles of testable age. DRLs themselves are not covered by the manual and are therefore not testable items."
I changed the DRLs and the fogs on my 66 4x4 the day I collected it, having checked out fittings and legality well in advance.
Babbo Umbro, the reason I did it was that they last a lot longer, use less power and are whiter (not blue). The beam pattern and range is the same, the DRLs go to 5 watts when the headlamps are on and are just more easily seen than the standard bulbs. I was never a big fan of DRLs until I got the Panda but now I love them, especially the LED ones. I also changed the main bulbs to Phillips Whitevisions to make them whiter with a little more range, as I do a lot of night driving on B roads in the winter and need good coverage.
The new Panda also allows you to have everything on, mains, DRL and fogs, at the same time which looks really cool for photos! It also upsets overbright Range Rovers and BMW warthogs, hee hee!
None of these make the car any faster or pull more chicks!
Euan
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Just because an item is not MOT testable does not mean that changing it will not make the car illegal for road use. The MOT is mostly about safety.
The lighting regulations require that non mandatory lights must still meet the requirements.
Additionally if the DRLs also provide the sidelight function then that is testable. CAN compatable LEDs do not use less power, if they did the lamp failure detection would be activated.
Robert G8RPI.
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Depends on the car Robert. The 75 which is canbus needs only 200ohms to load the system, some more modern ones require between 20 & 50 ohms, dependent on what bulb is being monitored.
Most of the canbus error free bulbs actually do draw less current. I do believe that power usage is irrelevant in a car, filament bulbs are outdated in 2017, cars like BMW Range Rover etcetera will blind you very easily, we are stuck with old technology H4 headlight bulbs. The addition of a sharper light in DRLs and other non blinding uses surely cannot be a bad thing. Fiat need to move with the times and fit properly E approved LED systems to improve safety. I can tell you driving a 6 volt Beetle is no fun!!!!
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I'd expect DRL's are in any case part of the mandatory lights on the current Panda as they became a legal requirement on all new passenger cars type approved from Feb 2011. Plus IIRC, as you say, they also have a dual function as part of the main vehicle lighting.
As g8rpi says, passing an MOT doesn't necessarily mean your car is fully compliant with the construction & use regulations. If the DRL's don't have an approved mark, they're not legal for road use, end of.
If your insurance company has told you explicitly that any bulbs fitted must have appropriate markings, and you fit ones which don't, then you've also broken the terms of your insurance contract. If you're planning on pleading ignorance, posting what you have done on a public forum may not be the brightest move, if you'll pardon the pun.
There are many who would say these regulations are out of date and need revising, and in time they may well change to permit the use of properly certified and appropriately marked LED's, but for now, we're stuck with what we have.
Frustrating as the regulations may sometimes be, console yourself that there are other countries where it's worse (Germany, Japan for example). And if you think all this certification stuff is burdensome, try maintaining a light aircraft.
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I accept your input JRK but I was sold these bulbs in good faith and they have an E1 marking. In fact it was a member on this very forum that recommended them, so then a recommendation should really not be allowed, should it..... especially if the use is illegal
Interesting question; what happens if you fit a component with a fake approved marking
. That opens up another can of worms, but I'd have thought the seller of such items would be in deep do-do. Perhaps not surprising they've gone out of business.All I can say is you've done more than many to ensure your modification is both legal and correctly insured, which is refreshingly nice to see.
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Soundmixer
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Just been out to check mine and they too have an E1 marking and were recommended by a forum member.
A can of worms indeed....
A can of worms indeed....
Interesting question; what happens if you fit a component with a fake approved marking
All I can say is you've done more than many to ensure your modification is both legal and correctly insured, which is refreshingly nice to see.
Thank you JRK for your kind words.
I do know that so much comes into the UK from China with fake CE markings, no doubt these bulbs are from the far east with fake E1 markings and fake Ring packaging with is long been put in the bin.
It is a big can of worms TBH.
When I had the 75 it was latterly on TPFT and the insurer was rather non committal on the LED lights, only said not to modify headlights with either LED's or after-market Zenons, I did contemplate fitting OEM ones of a scrapper though but gave up as the self levelling was an issue.
Alexiloki
Member
Alexiloki
Member
Here's a quote from a motoring guide which describes the situation more succinctly thank I can:
"1. New cars are fitted with LED lamps, why can I not install LED bulbs in my car’s lights to improve the looks and illumination?
New cars are fitted with LED lamps, which have been tested and pass Whole Vehicle Type Approval. Under British Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations, LEDs are not mentioned, because they were not invented, when the legislation was penned in 1989, meaning that they are not permitted at all. However, new cars fitted with LED lights are allowed to be used in the UK, because the lamps pass European / UNECE technical standards (although some of these latest LED lamps seem more dazzling to me than ever before).
Nonetheless, the ‘bulbs’ on those newer cars thus equipped, at the time of writing, cannot be renewed. If an LED module fails, the whole lamp has to be replaced.
Not only do conversion bulbs fail to comply with the aforementioned European technical standards but also fitting them ensures that your lamp will not perform as designed and will prejudice the Whole Vehicle Type Approval of your vehicle."
One of the main issues along with that above is Filament bulbs emit light in a different manner than led's. Normal lightbulbs give a even light output over the reflectors in the lights, which is what they are designed for. Light reflectors inside lamp units are not designed for LED's can have uneven lighting pattern, dead spots of low light and increase dazzle for oncoming drivers. (This isn't always the case but led bulb design is imperfect and combined with lights that are not designed for it means that you can never tell).
I think I would be very careful about led lights. Insurance companies make a big point (which legislation and the legal system supports) that it's your job to make sure all declarations are true and factual and by not doing so you could be in the deep end when it came to a claim. There was a case in the news a while back that a large insurance company - think it may have been aviva - disallowed someone's car insurance claim as it had a owners club sticker in the window that they didn't declare, as most insurance companies class any stickers as "decals" and therefore a modification. If you look at any bulb manufacturers information page on led bulbs they say "for off road use only". That means they have declared that they shouldn't be used and the onus is on the user to check.
Dodgy led bulbs with E markings are still not legal and while I'm with you that you acted in good faith and you shouldn't have been misled, while the law may allow for a certain degree of "ignorance" (not calling you that, just using the term as a explanation), insurance companies do not do so and coupled with all of those bulbs on sale legitimately saying they can't be used on Road, I imagine they wouldn't allow the explanation from one advert saying they are ok to use when hundreds of others say don't do it, so a modification and one that's not legal for Road use would be a toxic mix that could land us in trouble.
