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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #46
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Hi.
The one I have ordered has a 500ml tank with a level tube, the fittings are for 15mm OD. It also has an air filter on top. It's the same one I fitted to my Rover V6 and did the job just fine. As yet it hasn't arrived, hopefully in a day or two.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #47
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

If problems return.
With the problems previously reported regarding your O2 sensor it may be worth fitting a new one after catch tank fitted.
Use a proper branded O2 sensor
Preferably same brand as fiat used when building car.
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Last edited by jackwhoo; 4 Weeks Ago at 16:36.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #48
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

In reference to another poster, it seems that the car does have a MAP rather than a MAF, as such they tend to cope with contaminants much better.

I would be inclined to agree that crap servicing was probably the culprit, along with being driven like a gentle touch. Despite the engine being closed breathing, I've stripped down hard 'driven' test bed fire engines after 100k and seen no heavy contamination.

I would consider looking at something like Terraclean. While some people still consider it to be snake oil, I've had it used on my Panda and we use it at work to clean the engines internally before some tests. That should help to remove inlet track contamination and start you off clean again, hopefully preventing too many carbon issues and the past owners possible poor care and attention.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #49
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Quote Originally Posted by jackwhoo View Post
If problems return.
With the problems previously reported regarding your O2 sensor it may be worth fitting a new one after catch tank fitted.
Use a proper branded O2 sensor
Preferably same brand as fiat used when building car.


I would agree with that wholeheartedly, as the old one even if working has likely been well contaminated and with the attempts you have made to resolve the matter, a new O2 sensor would be a good shout.

In the OP's shoes I would go with the action plan of:

*Terraclean the engine, 99 is about the going rate.

*Oil and filter change, consider a new air filter as well to give a clean slate, go with as good a quality oil as possible, give me a shout if you need any suggestions or technical specs, that's my specialist area.

*New O2 sensor. Valeo was the OE supplier on my 15 panda so that is a good starting point. Bosch ones are what we use at work and always do well too, failure is very low.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #50
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

+1 for Bosch O2 sensors
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #51
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Hi.
Well the car has had an oil and filter change within the last two months. I did 370 miles between yesterday and today, mainly between 60 & 75 mph, she ran fine at these speeds but below 50 in 5th gear the hesitation and stuttering was noticeable. Oddly I got an indicated 57.3 mpg on the journey. I have now ordered a Bosch lambda sensor, so I'll do the catch tank first then the sensor.
Regarding Terraclean I'm doubtful, some of Rover guys felt it was snake oil.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #52
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Hi.
Well the car has had an oil and filter change within the last two months. I did 370 miles between yesterday and today, mainly between 60 & 75 mph, she ran fine at these speeds but below 50 in 5th gear the hesitation and stuttering was noticeable. Oddly I got an indicated 57.3 mpg on the journey. I have now ordered a Bosch lambda sensor, so I'll do the catch tank first then the sensor.
Regarding Terraclean I'm doubtful, some of Rover guys felt it was snake oil.


Good plan I would say!

As for Terraclean, yes some people do see it as snake oil but as I've actually used it on my own car and we use the 'professional' version of the same type of system at work to remove deposits I can say it does work. When we take our engines off the beds they normally hooked up to the cleaner after inspection and reassembly to remove carbon and combustion residue, at this stage we have probably cleaned about 150 engines with it and actually having them in bits in front of you, you can see the difference.

I think it's all about expectation. As a magic pill to fix all woes then it's a fail. I've seen some limited evidence of improving in emissions but as a specific tool to clean the inlets, valves and precat it does have some benefits.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #53
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Well I've ground in many hundreds of valves in my time. Inlets in some engines get very heavy deposits of carbon on their backs, the normal way of cleaning is to put the valve in a drill and use a sharp instrument and remove the carbon that way. No chemical could ever do that. The idea is to the remove the cause rather than trying clean it of chemically. Perhaps closed loop engine breathers should all have catch tanks, doubt many owners have enough brains to empty the tank when required. Sadly today most folk have very little DIY skills.
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Well I've ground in many hundreds of valves in my time. Inlets in some engines get very heavy deposits of carbon on their backs, the normal way of cleaning is to put the valve in a drill and use a sharp instrument and remove the carbon that way. No chemical could ever do that. The idea is to the remove the cause rather than trying clean it of chemically. Perhaps closed loop engine breathers should all have catch tanks, doubt many owners have enough brains to empty the tank when required. Sadly today most folk have very little DIY skills.
... unfortunately it's all about emissions now, so the venting of any unburned hydrocarbons to atmosphere is the work of Dr Evil. So they get sent round to be fired in the cylinders, with the consequential impact on the important upstream Lambda.

All the suggestions above are good, logical sense in my view.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #55
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Success!!

Hi.
Well the Lambda sensor arrived this morning just after 10:00. Immediately I was downhearted. The connecting lead was half the length it should be. I made a few calls and did some cross referencing and all seem to come with the short lead for the Panda, so something is amiss somewhere. I decided to bite the bullet and use inline crimps and just patch it. I also used heat shrink tubing on the join and it sits in the clips just below the air filter box.
I already had been out and the Torque App still displayed the sensor as "Not OK" with the heater being on at 100% on a hot engine.
After fitting the new sensor I went a run of a couple of miles and all the hesitation has gone, far more responsive to small throttle openings and just more lively, in fact better than the car has been in all the months Its been in my possession.
I know there has been times the fault has cleared but I'm sure its been cracked now. Torque is now showing two green ticks for both sensors and normal heater operation.
As yet the catch tank hasn't arrived so it'll be a call to chase it up.
I'll be interested to see how the fuel consumption pans out.
I'll report back in a few days with an update.

PS the postie has just delivered the catch tank
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #56
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Hi,
I am pleased things looking good at the moment, fingers Xed with this one though as it appears to come and go .
Jack
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #57
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Interestingly I read today of another member having oil contamination on his MAP on a 1.2.
This issue could well be raising its head now and I just wonder if upstream lambda failure could become a common issue due to the oil entering the inlet manifold and getting burned off.
May be an idea for all 1.2 owners to remove the MAP and have a look, one screw to remove and gently extract the sensor.
The Catch tank I have is going to be a squeeze to fit but it can be done, just dont get a big one as it wont fit anywhere, mine is a 500ml version and TBH if a 250ml version was available it would be easier, a Modified jam jar or other vessel would also do, all you want is a break in the breather pipe for neat oil to drip into the the canister and not get sucked along a hose into the throttle body, there really should be an oil trap in the breather hose or cam cover.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #58
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Interestingly I read today of another member having oil contamination on his MAP on a 1.2.
This issue could well be raising its head now and I just wonder if upstream lambda failure could become a common issue due to the oil entering the inlet manifold and getting burned off.
May be an idea for all 1.2 owners to remove the MAP and have a look, one screw to remove and gently extract the sensor.
The Catch tank I have is going to be a squeeze to fit but it can be done, just dont get a big one as it wont fit anywhere, mine is a 500ml version and TBH if a 250ml version was available it would be easier, a Modified jam jar or other vessel would also do, all you want is a break in the breather pipe for neat oil to drip into the the canister and not get sucked along a hose into the throttle body, there really should be an oil trap in the breather hose or cam cover.
I was going to point you in direction of the other similar post but saw you had already posted on it too.
Nice to have someone else mentioning map oil contamination , the conventional wisdom is map sensors tolerant of contamination but in relation to your engines maybe not so.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #59
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

So far so good chaps.
Being picky there is a very very slight feeling of hesitancy but I'd be saying its down to the Euro 6 tune.
So far then all seems to be well, certainly the longest without the dreadful stuttering and stammering I have had. Fuel consumption seems to be improving according to the read out too.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #60
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Re: HELP. Lambda sensor fuse number and location.

Hi.
All seems to be fine. I think we can at last put this to bed now.
Hesitancy is probably the wrong word, it is more like a very odd cough, no rhyme or reason to it but only on light throttle, again I put this down to engine tune.
I really think these engines need to be absolutely spot on for them to be right. So worn plugs, air filters going a bit long, cheap fuel will show up issues.
Anyway I'm happy now.
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