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Old 05-08-2016   #16
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

I was under the impression that the later Euro 6 TA's had a DMF, presumably including pandas and 500's
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Old 05-08-2016   #17
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Quote Originally Posted by Mercky View Post
I was under the impression that the later Euro 6 TA's had a DMF, presumably including pandas and 500's
That would explain a lot.
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Old 05-08-2016   #18
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Update on my earlier post - Euro 6 Panda has DMF whereas Euro 5 does not.

Having read about a bit, LOADS of modern cars - both petrol and derv - have DMFs.

New TA Cross I'm collecting tomorrow will be gone before warranty up anyway so WTF.
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Old 05-08-2016   #19
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Quote Originally Posted by TheItalianThrob View Post
Update on my earlier post - Euro 6 Panda has DMF whereas Euro 5 does not.



Having read about a bit, LOADS of modern cars - both petrol and derv - have DMFs.



New TA Cross I'm collecting tomorrow will be gone before warranty up anyway so WTF.

I like your handle
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Old 06-08-2016   #20
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Have been to see car in current state. Attached photos of bell housing and flywheel which is a dual mass flywheel.
Mechanic said this is wear and tear and is known on this model panda. So I will be pursuing fiat to treat as though under warranty.
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Old 06-08-2016   #21
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Quote Originally Posted by west71 View Post
Have been to see car in current state. Attached photos of bell housing and flywheel which is a dual mass flywheel.
Mechanic said this is wear and tear and is known on this model panda.
Condolences - this is the sort of stuff nightmares are made of.

My take is that no car buyer would reasonably expect a DMF to fail after 38 months / 33,000 miles, nor would they expect its failure to cause so much collateral damage.

I'd certainly try to get some sort of goodwill gesture from Fiat on this one; I doubt they'll cover all of the cost, but I'd expect to see some sort of contribution.

Quote Originally Posted by west71 View Post
Mechanic said this is wear and tear and is known on this model panda. So I will be pursuing fiat to treat as though under warranty.
Be careful what words you use when talking to Fiat, as the warranty specifically excludes wear and tear items.

Quote Originally Posted by west71 View Post
I am looking at close to 5k for the repairs.
.

That is perilously close to the book trade in value of the car, and makes this the mechanical equivalent of a CatD writeoff.

Salvage value in its current state + the quoted cost of repair is likely more than the car will be worth once repaired.

If Fiat won't contribute anything, I'd consider selling it 'as is' and putting the proceeds and the 5k towards another car.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 06-08-2016 at 13:33.
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Old 06-08-2016   #22
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Many thanks for your reply. Will post again when I know what fiat's response is. Maybe fortunately I am not talking to them, the service man at Hartwell's is so he may be saying the right things. I had forgotten wear and tear isn't covered.
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Old 06-08-2016   #23
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Quote Originally Posted by west71 View Post
Have been to see car in current state. Attached photos of bell housing and flywheel which is a dual mass flywheel.
Mechanic said this is wear and tear and is known on this model panda. So I will be pursuing fiat to treat as though under warranty.
thanks for posting - it the OX14 workshop I presume.

5K.. that's appalling, the replacement gearbox is obviously a fair chunk of that

is it the black plastic looking swivelling arm that is not a service item..??

or the bearing mount on front of the gearbox ( @Asa James )??.

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Last edited by varesecrazy; 06-08-2016 at 14:17.
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Old 06-08-2016   #24
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Sorry I don't really understand the pictures, I just took them. I can see scraping damage to the inside of the bell housing, and marks on the flywheel. I have to take as valid what the service people tell me.
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Old 07-08-2016   #25
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

It's not the bellhousing that's damaged, if you look where the input shaft is ( middle of bellhousing) you can see the metal guide that the release bearing sits on, the end of that is worn down, and can't be bought separate, new bellhousing required. I've seen it replaced under warranty as the customer had great difficulty selecting gear, again only on a MiTo, but worth the argument.
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Old 09-08-2016   #26
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

There have been a couple of comments about how rough the TA engine is, which I don't generally endorse. In 39000 miles over three years there have only been a handful of occasions that I've experienced any roughness - when I've allowed the revs to drop to a ridiculously low level and the engine has become very - almost alarmingly - lumpy. Could allowing the engine to labour in that way have anything to do with flywheel failures?
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Old 09-08-2016   #27
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Quote Originally Posted by babbo_umbro View Post
Could allowing the engine to labour in that way have anything to do with flywheel failures?
It would be very alarming if that were the case, as allowing the engine to grumble along at low revs is the only way to get decent fuel consumption, and that nagging gear change indicator positively encourages it. At times it feels like it's trying to shake itself to bits.

On a related subject, does anyone know the cost of extending the warranty beyond 3 years? I seem to recall you can buy an extended warranty from Fiat at the time of first registration, but some manufacturers (eg Citroen) have a scheme whereby you can extend the warranty at any time before it expires. I normally run a mile from that kind of insurance cash-cow, as it's usually much cheaper to put some money aside for repairs/replacements as and when, but a few 100 a year could turn out to be a good investment if there's a risk of a major engine failure costing 1000s.
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Last edited by gar074; 09-08-2016 at 11:17.
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Old 09-08-2016   #28
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Quote Originally Posted by gar074 View Post
It would be very alarming if that were the case, as allowing the engine to grumble along at low revs is the only way to get decent fuel consumption, and that nagging gear change indicator positively encourages it. At times it feels like it's trying to shake itself to bits.
I meant letting the revs drop so far that it's almost stalling, not normal plugging away at 1200 revs or something similar - otherwise I've never experienced the sort of vibration that appears to be normal for you. Not sure I've ever looked at the gearchange indicator.
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Old 09-08-2016   #29
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

I see what you mean, but when normal-driving-mode for decent fuel economy is circa 1200 revs, you don't need to let the revs drop very far before the thing starts complaining.
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Old 09-08-2016   #30
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Re: flywheel broken on 3 year old 4x4

Quote Originally Posted by gar074 View Post
It would be very alarming if that were the case, as allowing the engine to grumble along at low revs is the only way to get decent fuel consumption, and that nagging gear change indicator positively encourages it. At times it feels like it's trying to shake itself to bits.

On a related subject, does anyone know the cost of extending the warranty beyond 3 years? I seem to recall you can buy an extended warranty from Fiat at the time of first registration, but some manufacturers (eg Citroen) have a scheme whereby you can extend the warranty at any time before it expires. I normally run a mile from that kind of insurance cash-cow, as it's usually much cheaper to put some money aside for repairs/replacements as and when, but a few 100 a year could turn out to be a good investment if there's a risk of a major engine failure costing 1000s.
I find the change indicator on my 500 TA to be fairly sensible and it doesent coax me in to changing up too early. Now that the engine is fully run-in at 24k it will happily phutter along at 1200rpm as you say however in my experience slogging the engine in top gear, although it will happily do it, does not give the best economy, I get better results if I keep it in the happy zone of peak torque which is around 1900 to 2000rpm, I tend to stay in 4th longer as a result. I appreciate the gearing is different on a Panda though but peak torque will be the same.
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