Hi all,


I`ve had my Dynamic MyLife for 4 years now, and will be looking to replace it next year with a new Panda.


Trouble is, there is only 1 garage here that sells Pandas and they don`t carry a big stock (maybe 2 or 3), it`s all 500s over here. They don't seem to be that aware of all the extras available - he told me yesterday that the rear sliding seat isn`t an option, but I`m sure it`s in the brochure?


Anyway, my Panda is the 69hp version and it`s great, but the TA seems to be better in terms of performance and mpg?


Can anyone help me choose which to get?


I`m sticking to the "normal" Panda, not a 4x4 and don`t want MJ (most journeys are less than 3 miles). I`m looking at the Lounge trim ...


Thanks

The split sliding rear seat is certainly an option on the configurator - http://www.fiat.co.uk/uk/panda/configurator

TA economy is poor unless you're able to drive at a steady 50-60 and avoid changes in speed, hills, traffic etc. That doesn't sound like Jersey to me! On the plus side, if you ignore the fuel consumption it's a little hooligan - rorty and surprisingly quick. Great fun. The best way of deciding is to try them both - if you can't try a Panda TA, a 500 TA will give you a good sense of how the TA performs.

gar074 said:

TA economy is poor unless you're able to drive at a steady 50-60 and avoid changes in speed, hills, traffic etc. That doesn't sound like Jersey to me! On the plus side, if you ignore the fuel consumption it's a little hooligan - rorty and surprisingly quick. Great fun. The best way of deciding is to try them both - if you can't try a Panda TA, a 500 TA will give you a good sense of how the TA performs.

Click to expand...

Actually, I hadn't even thought to try a 500, that's a good idea!

I had a Tuned Panda 169 with 1.2 ltr 69 hp. (real 75 hp after remap)
Drove the new Panda 319 with 1.2 ltr and TA Turbo "back to back".
The choice was very simple, TA Turbo.
The new 1.2 ltr 69 hp engine still drive more then OK but in the 100 Kg heavier new Panda it is not that quick with the 1.2 ltr engine.

The real world TA fuel economy is in my opinion pretty good for such a nippy engine. I got 49mpg last weekend over a 500 mile trip to Durham and back, mostly at 75mph on the motorway. Easily th best I've had in a petrol car.

The big slating the TA gets for economy is because of the ridiculous claims made for it. Not so much Fiat's fault as the people who design the format of the "official" mpg tests.

We run a 1.2 Lounge and a 4x4 TA side by side.
Basically they do the same trip monday to friday as we both work at the same place (just different times)

After 18 months there's very little in it, mpg wise.
The 1.2 is a little down on the TA overall as it rarely leaves the centre of London, where the TA does venture up and down the odd motorway.
But then again, I tow with the TA and fanny around in farmer fields, which doesn't help either.

Driving wise, they drive quite different.
It's easy and a lot of fun to rag the TA as the engine spins very freely (and it's easy to redline or hit the rev limiter), but it's not what it's good at really, though it does make you grin.

It loves to chug around in taller gears than you think it would as it produces it's torque quite low in the rpm range (1900 rpm) so it phut phuts around on a light throttle with easy in quite tall gears, though it "feels or sounds" it's not right due to the shudder and vibes (to the point you can almost feel/hear each piston stroke)

It picks up fairly well from this phut phutting if you stand on the pedal, you can almost stop it in 4th and as long as you wait for the turbo to spool it'll pick up with a shudder and a shake and soon be off down the road.
The 1.2 obviously needs the cogs swapping several times to get the same result, but it's not as viby and feels smoother, yet can be a bit harsh if you really hang on until near the red line.

So really one is a little smoother and conventional, the other torquey, viby yet has the ability to give you a little "wow" every now and then, though the TA is a bit marmite, some love it, others don't (but a lot come around after a good drive)

You tend to need to ingoring your driving instinct of sound and feel of the engine and learn to drive it when it feels a bit laboured and shuddery to get the best out of it (if you can, as written, it can be a lot of fun ragging it).

Although I've loved the FIRE other the years, the Lounge is probably our last one.
Sure the TA isn't perfect, but it suits us both better.

I don't have much experience of the FIRE engine, just a few drives in one a few years ago now, but have now owned a TA for 6+ months in a 4x4 (per Goudrons, above).
The FIRE engine, from my recollection, is a decent, conventional small-ish engine - smooth, revs cleanly and produces it's best in the mid-higher rpm ranges. It's a good fit with a city car, like the Panda. Can't comment on some of the fuelling issues that have been subject to scrutiny on here and in the media (hill-starts etc), though it sounds like that may now be sorted? Perhaps a more recent user would comment?
The TwinAir is a different kind of motor and whether you like it will depend on what you're seeking from a car. It's definitely more characterful than the 'normal' 3-4cyl motors found in most modern city cars, but that manifests itself as being torquey, slightly chuggy-sounding and 'yes' at lower revs occasionally a few vibes seep through. I love it, but as we established when I joined this forum, I (like a number of other TA owners) also love 2CVs, twin-cyl bikes and the like. In a 4x4, it perhaps fits the slightly-quirky, dare I say, somewhat odd-ball(?) nature of the Panda 4x4 (and it's owners! ;0) )
If you just want an economical, quiet companion, the FIRE is perhaps a better bet. If you want to be more 'aware of' and 'involved in' the engine you're driving, the TwinAir produces stronger low-mid rpm pull, a surprisingly quiet, smooth and pokey motorway drive and has the ability to produce decent mpg with careful driving (perhaps more so in a 2wd variant). It's a growl-ey little thing, a bit more of an enthusiasts choice and (in my view) is best enjoyed by someone who seeks that quirkiness. Horses for courses - Drive both and see!

Two great posts - they sum up the TA driving experience perfectly.

Hmm, an interesting one.

I agree with a lot of the comments regarding the TA's benefits, but would it really be a good choice on Jersey? By that I mean is it going to be happy enough spending the vast majority of time below 40mph?

That would be my only concern. I have a mate who lives in St Brelade and I remember visiting him about 10 years ago; he had an old school Vauxhall Nova at the time with about 12,000 miles on the clock

Am just thinking along the lines of the car being ultra low mileage, used at relatively low speeds and the turbo not really getting proper use?

That would be my only consideration really.

Super Uwe - it's something to consider, I think less because of the turbo (this is only a small unit, so spools at low-rpm and would thus be in use in low-speed driving) and the engine itself (the TwinAir produces low-down pull that's great in rural, slow-speed driving). Moreover, I'd think the gearing may be worthy of investigation. The 4x4 has 6-speeds and I recall from posts elsewhere that these apparently produce a lower-geared (in the sense of more rpm per mph) top-gear final drive than the 5-speed (2WD) TwinAir. At 40mph in a 5-speed/2WD you might find 5th less usable (you can pull 6th from ~40mph in a Twinair 6-speed 4x4). is the 1.2 lower-geared than the TwinAir 5-speed? Goudrons - what gear would you pull at 40 in a 1.2?

On the flat the 1.2 will easy pull 40mph in 5th.
Then again, most cars will.

I don't think any of this interests the average buyer, sorry.
You test drive, then look in your pocket.
Then try and match the two!

Turbos on petrols don't tend to suffer from the caking ****e a diesel Turbo would.
Clean oil is the key to long turbo life.

I would say the TA would be handy if it's a little hilly (never been to Jersey) the torque will come in useful zipping up hills, I did miss it in a hired 1.2 Panda in Kefalonia recently.


On reading back regarding testing a TA 500 it's worth remembering that the 500 and the new Panda don't share the same road manners.

I've driven a fair few 500's and though they seem to handle body roll a little better, they do bounce and giggle and seem to suffer an indecent amount of tyre roar.

I also think the plastics inside are a bit cheaper than the new Panda, these look and feel a step up in quality.

But the 500 seats are a lot better.

Digressing slightly, I recall meeting a honeymooning couple waiting in line to board a cruise ship, a few years ago, who were from Jersey and who'd never been off the island before. They were recounting how terrifying it was to be driven around the M25 at 70+mph, when all they'd ever known was Jersey's 40mph upper-limit...! :0P

Super Uwe said:

Hmm, an interesting one.

I agree with a lot of the comments regarding the TA's benefits, but would it really be a good choice on Jersey? By that I mean is it going to be happy enough spending the vast majority of time below 40mph?

That would be my only concern. I have a mate who lives in St Brelade and I remember visiting him about 10 years ago; he had an old school Vauxhall Nova at the time with about 12,000 miles on the clock

Am just thinking along the lines of the car being ultra low mileage, used at relatively low speeds and the turbo not really getting proper use?

That would be my only consideration really.

Click to expand...

Blimeny, it`s a small world


Yes, the points you raise are particularly relevant to Jersey, thanks for spotting and highlighting this.


I do go to France once or twice a year and travel between 500-1000miles per trip. The FIRE engine was quite happy to travel at a steady 80mph for 2 hours, so it`s a good all round engine as far as I can see. Is the TA engine?

Gi

Jerseywurzel said:

The FIRE engine was quite happy to travel at a steady 80mph for 2 hours, so it`s a good all round engine as far as I can see. Is the TA engine?

Click to expand...

I don't really travel at those speeds these days, but I have done a few 200+ mile trips up the motorways a few times and it cruises along well, not as noisey as you'd think, though I think the seats aren't as comfortable as our old 57 plate active.

I did the same trip late last year, flat out to a hosptial late at night, it was rather a sad trip.
I don't remember much of it as I was in a bit of a state, but I do remember wringing it's neck for all it had, it was either going to get me there as fast as it could or go bang trying.
It's passed the quoted top speed by quite a margin and sat there for three hours, the turbo must have glowed so brightly it would have been visible from space.
It by no means let me down or felt short of breath.

I think Babbo Umbro makes regular trips to Italy in his TA 4x4,
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/357581-4x4-ta-devon-umbria.html
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/425948-4x4-ta-devon-umbria-devon.html

It's a shame you can't get a test drive of one, it is quite an oddball, but works well and it certainly livens trips up, gives the little runabout a certain je ne sais quoi (or the Italian equivalent)

We've just been to the French Alps loaded up and with two mountain bikes on the towbar and achieved 37mpg on the autoroute in the TA Cross. That was with eco mode on for cruising, although you have to switch it off for the big hills!

Having eco on was quite handy for me, as being tall I could pretty much keep my foot to the mat which was physically comfortable, and that would maintain about 75 - 80mph. Like a ghetto cruise control!

I confess, I don't sit for hours at 80mph, but mostly because you can't seem to go more than a few miles on the M1 without speed cameras galore! What I can say is that I have been impressed by the acceleration / 'pull' available in the TwinAir at 70-or-so for such a teeny engine, though at those speeds your fuel economy will take a hit...

Goudrons said:

..
I think Babbo Umbro makes regular trips to Italy in his TA 4x4,
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/357581-4x4-ta-devon-umbria.html
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/425948-4x4-ta-devon-umbria-devon.html

...

Click to expand...

Yes - just planning the autumn trip, which will be the 4x4 TA's fifth between Devon and Umbria. This autumn's stay in Italy is later than usual as I'm a volunteer at the Rugby World Cup in Exeter, so the outward journey will be mid-October and there's a fair chance of snow somewhere en route, especially on the way back. I haven't tried eco seriously since frightening myself by how lethargic it was when the car was new - I'm sure it would be better now after 26+ thousand miles - compared with Mrs b_u's 60-plate 1.2 the 4x4 is noticeably more gutsy, particularly above 60-70 mph and going up long continental hills; averaging 39-40 mpg compared with about 10 mpg more from the FIRE engine - in a lighter and slower car.

AndyK said:

I could pretty much keep my foot to the mat ... Like a ghetto cruise control!

Click to expand...