Hi, sorry if this is a silly question......... I have a 2014/64 reg Panda 1.2 69bhp Pop. Can anyone tell me how I can tell if my car has ESP or not. I would assume there should be a button on my dash?
Technical ESP or not ESP
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Technical ESP or not ESP
Paul A H
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When it first went on sale (in the UK at least), ESP was an optional extra for the Panda. At some point it became standard kit, but I'm not 100% sure when that was. There is no button to turn ESP on or off, but the upgrade also included ASR, (traction control) which you can turn on or off.
If your car has these functions, you should have a button marked ASR just in front of the gear lever between the window controls. Our car is a 2015 Easy and it has the button. The height adjustable driver's seat is also standard now, but again I'm not 100% sure when they made the change.
Hope that helps.
Paul
Edit: the brochure I got from the dealer in November last year has it marked as an option, so it might have been quite a recent change (or the dealer had old brochures!). Fiat claim that cars with ESP/ASR are not affected by the issues with the Euro6 1.2, which may explain why it is now standard kit.
If your car has these functions, you should have a button marked ASR just in front of the gear lever between the window controls. Our car is a 2015 Easy and it has the button. The height adjustable driver's seat is also standard now, but again I'm not 100% sure when they made the change.
Hope that helps.
Paul
Edit: the brochure I got from the dealer in November last year has it marked as an option, so it might have been quite a recent change (or the dealer had old brochures!). Fiat claim that cars with ESP/ASR are not affected by the issues with the Euro6 1.2, which may explain why it is now standard kit.
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That's most helpful thanks. My car has the ASR button but is also displaying the "features" described by the 500 users. ie it has a distinct flat spot when pulling away sometimes and is very difficult to move off when on a slope.
Fiat CS are saying the "fix" is only being applied to cars without ESC (as they call it) Also it appears, according to Fiat CS at least, that my Euro 6 69bhp engine is not the same as the one's they fit in the 500
Seems I am going to have a problem getting my car sorted
Not sure if it is related but it might be worth a reading for you at this post by Goudrons: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/422549-initial-start-up-ignition.html?p=4052692That's most helpful thanks. My car has the ASR button but is also displaying the "features" described by the 500 users. ie it has a distinct flat spot when pulling away sometimes and is very difficult to move off when on a slope.
Fiat CS are saying the "fix" is only being applied to cars without ESC (as they call it) Also it appears, according to Fiat CS at least, that my Euro 6 69bhp engine is not the same as the one's they fit in the 500
Seems I am going to have a problem getting my car sorted
Paul A H
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That's most helpful thanks. My car has the ASR button but is also displaying the "features" described by the 500 users. ie it has a distinct flat spot when pulling away sometimes and is very difficult to move off when on a slope.
Fiat CS are saying the "fix" is only being applied to cars without ESC (as they call it) Also it appears, according to Fiat CS at least, that my Euro 6 69bhp engine is not the same as the one's they fit in the 500
Seems I am going to have a problem getting my car sorted
Our car has a small flat spot (slight hesitation when pulling off) but there are no problems with hill starts (I tested it fairly thoroughly after we collected the car). I'm not too worried about the flat spot as my old Mazda (1.5 16v DOHC) used to have a similar power curve - nothing... nothing... noth... POWERRRR!
Somewhere else on the forum it was mentioned that there is a different software update for ESC equipped cars. Why not call your dealer and ask them if they can find out if there is an update for your car by the chassis number?
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Read the link, thanks.
Goudrons explains exactly what happens. I have realised that it's possible to pull away in the way "he" describes to drive around the flat spot.
But I've been driving waaaay too long to change habits now, it's just not natural and therefore can be dangerous.
In truth, most of the time I can drive around it too. Many years of driving old hacks taught me how to drive anything
As for the alternative software update, the dealer had my car in last week. Checked for relevant updates = none
Hence my initial question.
To get through EU drive-by noise and emission tests. Has been screwing up motorbike engine characteristics for years, and now doing the same to cars. Gotta love legislation cause and effect!
ESP is standard on the Cross but you cannot switch it off.
So, anyway.......... seems my car has ESP or ESC as Fiat call it and therefore there's no update for me!
Spoke to the dealer again today. He suggested I speak to CS. Anyone remember the tune to the magic roundabout (Yes, I'm going around in circles!)
So I say "No point in talking to CS, they told me to talk to you and to ask you to talk to Technical, which I know you've already done" Que the music.........
I shall bring the car into the dealer and ask their techy to drive it up a slope and also to see if we can replicate the flat spot. Any takers for the bet that it will drive perfectly when he drives it?
Spoke to the dealer again today. He suggested I speak to CS. Anyone remember the tune to the magic roundabout (Yes, I'm going around in circles!)
So I say "No point in talking to CS, they told me to talk to you and to ask you to talk to Technical, which I know you've already done" Que the music.........
I shall bring the car into the dealer and ask their techy to drive it up a slope and also to see if we can replicate the flat spot. Any takers for the bet that it will drive perfectly when he drives it?
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You'll no doubt get no where with Fiat CS or any dealer on this, no one else has, whether Panda or 500!
It seems more and more common that cars are programmed to include this clutch lift-increase rpm thing with various degrees of success.
Seems Fiat's success with this hasn't been as good as some others.
The ECU has control over the air/fuel at idle, but when the clutch starts to lift a switch on it somewhere informs the ECU what's happenening and increases fuel/air, that is until the clutch is released and it's back over to you!
The idea of this prevents stalling and helps gearchanges as well (as it blips the rpm up inbetween changes).
A couple of things can happen that makes life difficult.
First is you've learnt to drive like me (properly) and have over the years started off by setting your rpm yourself.
So when you pull away you have the ECU controling the fuel and air, and you've also now opened the throttle body.
This sucks in extra air it's not quite metered fuel for so the car bogs down or pauses until the fuel delivery catches up.
Another thing is, yes the ECU increases rpm on the clutch but when it's done, it's back over to you and the rpm returns to idle speed.
So you're away on "auto" then just as you are moving away, the rpm drops and you bog down if you've not quite timed the throttle pedal and caught the falling rpms quick enough.
Add either of these scenarios to a hill and it can be quite difficult to get going smoothly.
Going back to my comment about driving properly, my Lad has started to learn, his instructor's car, being a modern one does exactly the same thing.
Trouble now is, the crappy old C2 we've bought him doesn't do this and he's having difficulty getting it away for stationary.
He can't quite get his head around why it won't rev it's self on lifting the clutch!
It seems more and more common that cars are programmed to include this clutch lift-increase rpm thing with various degrees of success.
Seems Fiat's success with this hasn't been as good as some others.
The ECU has control over the air/fuel at idle, but when the clutch starts to lift a switch on it somewhere informs the ECU what's happenening and increases fuel/air, that is until the clutch is released and it's back over to you!
The idea of this prevents stalling and helps gearchanges as well (as it blips the rpm up inbetween changes).
A couple of things can happen that makes life difficult.
First is you've learnt to drive like me (properly) and have over the years started off by setting your rpm yourself.
So when you pull away you have the ECU controling the fuel and air, and you've also now opened the throttle body.
This sucks in extra air it's not quite metered fuel for so the car bogs down or pauses until the fuel delivery catches up.
Another thing is, yes the ECU increases rpm on the clutch but when it's done, it's back over to you and the rpm returns to idle speed.
So you're away on "auto" then just as you are moving away, the rpm drops and you bog down if you've not quite timed the throttle pedal and caught the falling rpms quick enough.
Add either of these scenarios to a hill and it can be quite difficult to get going smoothly.
Going back to my comment about driving properly, my Lad has started to learn, his instructor's car, being a modern one does exactly the same thing.
Trouble now is, the crappy old C2 we've bought him doesn't do this and he's having difficulty getting it away for stationary.
He can't quite get his head around why it won't rev it's self on lifting the clutch!
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I suspect that the automatic lifting of revs is not specifically programmed around clutch-lift and gear changing per se, but a factor of the ECU's use of the Idle Control Valve (for cable throttle cars) or TB butterfly (Fly by Wire cars) to simply enforce and maintain a lower threshold for the idle speed. That's why it possible (within reason) for most modern (fly-by-wire in particular) cars to allow driving off and changing gears up to 3rd or 4th - all seemingly at idle speed. In fact the ECU makes sure the revs don't drop but isn't necessarily 'aware' of the cause. It just makes sure they stay above a lowest permitted value.
But to use this trait as an alternative (and very convenient) way of moving off from a standstill, as Goudrons says, is quite a good option.
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Yes, it's certain the rpm increase is initiated by the clutch pedals travel.
You can make the car's rpm's rise and fall just by pushing the clutch in and out.
It doesn't make any difference if it in gear or not, moving or not or any other load on the engine, just the action of the clutch.
Hold the clutch on the "sweet spot" (somewhere part way up) and you can hold the rpms at it's increased rate until the clutch burns out or your foot hurts!
Some 500 owners have tried disconnecting the switch, but it does negatively effect the gearchange smoothness as the increase in rpm at this point helps the box to swop cogs much more smoothly.
I suspect, due to cost it's a simple swing switch (off, on, off) on the pedal rather than any sort of variable voltage coil style switch (can't remember the exact name, let alone spell it) which tend to be more unreliable.
Again, I suspect the bypass control valve and a certain increase in injector bandwidth takes care of the fuel and air, after all this "phenomenon" seems only to relate to the latest 1.2's, from late '13 or from early '14's only seem to be effected, so their technology is pretty much limits how it achieves it.
What is certain, it does seem to cause some experienced drivers problems, which sort of relates to Fiats response of it being due to "driving style".
I've almost managed to overcome it on the Mrs Lounge, but it does catch me out every now and again, particularly late down shifting, which I tend to do to stop every so often (a result of an earlier life with wet drum brakes).
This tends to make the car lurch forward as the clutch pops up and rpms increase and often results in a very panicked stab of the brakes as the car tends to accelerate off rather than slow down!
You can make the car's rpm's rise and fall just by pushing the clutch in and out.
It doesn't make any difference if it in gear or not, moving or not or any other load on the engine, just the action of the clutch.
Hold the clutch on the "sweet spot" (somewhere part way up) and you can hold the rpms at it's increased rate until the clutch burns out or your foot hurts!
Some 500 owners have tried disconnecting the switch, but it does negatively effect the gearchange smoothness as the increase in rpm at this point helps the box to swop cogs much more smoothly.
I suspect, due to cost it's a simple swing switch (off, on, off) on the pedal rather than any sort of variable voltage coil style switch (can't remember the exact name, let alone spell it) which tend to be more unreliable.
Again, I suspect the bypass control valve and a certain increase in injector bandwidth takes care of the fuel and air, after all this "phenomenon" seems only to relate to the latest 1.2's, from late '13 or from early '14's only seem to be effected, so their technology is pretty much limits how it achieves it.
What is certain, it does seem to cause some experienced drivers problems, which sort of relates to Fiats response of it being due to "driving style".
I've almost managed to overcome it on the Mrs Lounge, but it does catch me out every now and again, particularly late down shifting, which I tend to do to stop every so often (a result of an earlier life with wet drum brakes).
This tends to make the car lurch forward as the clutch pops up and rpms increase and often results in a very panicked stab of the brakes as the car tends to accelerate off rather than slow down!
Glad I don't seem to have this on my 4x4TA - far happier with just the single pedal route to engine control!
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Yep, I prefer my 4x4TA, though it still has this "clutch effect", but the increase in rpm is tiny compared to SWCMD's 1.2.
The trouble I have is the Mrs prefers my 4x4TA too, and the Mother in Law!
The trouble I have is the Mrs prefers my 4x4TA too, and the Mother in Law!
gar074
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I can't gar074, it's She Who Cooks My Dinner!
gar074
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Learn to cook - you know it makes sense!
