gazz_bee said:

Merely pointing out that the statistical data on European sales being healthy is misleading. Of the 171,000 Fiat Panda's sold in 2015, 45,000 were sold outside Italy. That presents a completely different position on its popularity and why Fiat need to develop their products proactively.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/417585/italy-leading-car-brand-sales/

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For whatever reason Italians love the Panda. Far more than the 500 which has less than half its sales at home. The 500 sells equally well when considered across European markets but with a much smaller home market skew. The point I was making wasn't that home bias doesn't exist - is that it's not unique to Fiat. Other brands do much better in their home market too. I don't disagree the Panda needs replacing - the original discussion was - is the Panda a worse car than the Up/Mii/Citigo? Owning a Panda and an Up! clone has surprised me - despite the fact the Panda is old it more than holds its own in comparison. I will use it in preference to the other. I only use the other one if it's parked behind the Panda. The Citigo is slower, gives me backache and, in the summer, the aircon can't blow the skin off a rice pudding. It also constantly mists up in winter - it's not all negative-the main advantages are - more room inside and it's better for carrying people and their luggage, it achieves another 5mpg when measured fill to fill - the layout of the pedals is also less eccentric - although it has no footrest. But if I'm travelling alone I choose the Panda everytime. I enjoy driving it - especially on faster roads where the other car is a gutless pain.

puntofan01 said:

Perhaps it's just the ford owners I know, lol! 1 of my work colleagues likes to poke fun at me, even though my 2008 Grande Punto has got more kit than his 2011 focus! [emoji23] I remember once seeing an immense discussion on Facebook between 2 people I know as whether ford or vw was best, which made me chuckle.

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I got rid of my MK 1 Focus Ghia 2.0 for the Grande Punto 1.9 Elegenza. It was a terrible mistake to make as most aspects of the Punto were not as good and reliability was appalling. I bought the Punto because I liked the style, and running costs/performance appealed and no other manufacturer at the time was making a large engined high power diesel supermini that was not a sports model.

It got replaced with a MK3 Focus - that car was brilliant, could not fault it at all, glad to see the back of the Punto

JCarp16 said:

For whatever reason Italians love the Panda. Far more than the 500 which has less than half its sales at home. The 500 sells equally well when considered across European markets but with a much smaller home market skew.

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That does speak volumes about the Italian attitude to cars compared to the UKs'. It seems whilst they like their cars to be good looking, they're not seen as almost being fashion accessories like they are over here.

puntofan01 said:

That does speak volumes about the Italian attitude to cars compared to the UKs'. It seems whilst they like their cars to be good looking, they're not seen as almost being fashion accessories like they are over here.

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Have you ever been to Italy?

Nope, but I do get the impression they like value for money.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

puntofan01 said:

Nope, but I do get the impression they like value for money.

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You’re having a laugh right? You’ve never heard that’s Italians are obsessed with style?

How old are you?

Of course I know that the Italians are obsessed with style, hence the best looking mass produced cars were designed by Italians, but if they were more concerned with pure fashion, then surely more people there would find the extra money for the 500 than go for a Panda.

I think the Panda has grown to much.
It's a big A-segment car now, and not a small A-segment car anymore.
One step bigger and it becomes a B-segmenter.
FCA could better change the Panda in a 5-door 500, and change the 500 in a 3-door Panda.

JCarp16 said:

Marchionne's product strategy is more reactive than proactive. For example - SUVs are selling well - let's just concentrate on them at the expense of everything else. He can be credited with turning things around but a change at the top is well overdue.

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Marchionne got lucky when he started. He inherited a Fiat that already had the fairly fresh Panda, the newly launched Grande Punto and a 500 that was just about to hit. What product has he spearheaded during the last 10 years that has genuinely lead the market?

Fiat took ages to launch the twinair, still hasn’t launched a twinair engine where both the exhaust and intake valves controlled by multiair and their DDCT boxes took way too long to come to market at well. Fiat could have had such a march on the competition if they’d developed all those technologies during the credit crunch rather than keeping them on ice. But they didn’t.

puntofan01 said:

Of course I know that the Italians are obsessed with style, hence the best looking mass produced cars were designed by Italians, but if they were more concerned with pure fashion, then surely more people there would find the extra money for the 500 than go for a Panda.

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I’ll say it again, have you been to Italy?

306maxi said:

I’ll say it again, have you been to Italy?

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Domani Domani is there motto.

JimbbobW1977 said:

I got rid of my MK 1 Focus Ghia 2.0 for the Grande Punto 1.9 Elegenza. It was a terrible mistake to make as most aspects of the Punto were not as good and reliability was appalling. I bought the Punto because I liked the style, and running costs/performance appealed and no other manufacturer at the time was making a large engined high power diesel supermini that was not a sports model.

It got replaced with a MK3 Focus - that car was brilliant, could not fault it at all, glad to see the back of the Punto

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Agree. Never felt safe in a Punto when given a lift in one. Mind you, same can be said for the old focus, and felt particularly vulnerable in the old 306. Oddly not quite so in the Panda, though something about the car meant that it was not normally driven like a suicidal loon. Crash tested a Renault Laguna of a similar vintage and am ever so grateful it was indeed that car. I would never consider the Punto I'm afraid, the looks never appealed either. But that is OK, personal choice and all.

I still think FCA could do a Panda Sport version.
The new 1332cc GSE-Firefly engine would be perfect.

Or, they could use the existing 1.4 T-Jet?

Or they’re not going to make a Panda that’s any quicker than the cooking versions.

306maxi said:

Or they’re not going to make a Panda that’s any quicker than the cooking versions.

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That'd be my take on it. It's too limited a market to be profitable for Fiat.

The last of the 100HP's had to be practically given away in the UK; they could be had in the day for less than the price of a 1.2 500 pop, if you shopped around.

jrkitching said:

That'd be my take on it. It's too limited a market to be profitable for Fiat.

The last of the 100HP's had to be practically given away in the UK; they could be had in the day for less than the price of a 1.2 500 pop, if you shopped around.

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Sadly I think there’s a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread.

The Panda 100hp was a chuffing fantastic car, but even then it wasn’t all that successful, I don’t think Fiat are going to invest millions and millions to make a car that they’re only going to sell a few of.

306maxi said:

Sadly I think there’s a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread.



The Panda 100hp was a chuffing fantastic car, but even then it wasn’t all that successful, I don’t think Fiat are going to invest millions and millions to make a car that they’re only going to sell a few of.

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They won’t make a sporty Panda like the 100hp now as the Abarth brand is aimed at that end of the market. And it’s fairly successful. The Panda would potentially cannibalise sales, or not appeal to the target customers the same way. It’s quite soft and round for a sports orientated model!

And the Fiat 500 isn’t?