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General Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

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General Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

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JCarp16 said:
If you're so obsessed about profit why don't you compare Toyota vs VW profit margins? On one hand you argue they're number 1 (using figures from last summer) on the other you say profit is most important. FCA profit margins are partly affected by the fact that they are continuously paying off debt and aiming to be debt free by the end of next year. In order to invest in product you need cash - German automakers are cash rich partly because they own their own finance companies plus they had that cartel going for a while which didn't hurt their margins either...
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Are you people illiterate?

I am saying that VW sell the most cars. I’m saying that simply considering sales isn’t the whole story though, profit needs to be a consideration as well.

Most companies offer their own finance, you can still take out a loan and walk in and buy with cash or do PCP or HP through a 3rd party if you want to.

Listen, I’m no big VW fan and will probably never own one, but you guys seem to act like everyone thinks like you do.

I wish Fiat were doing better, but they’re not doing all that much aside from in the Panda/500 segment and both of those cars are really getting on in terms of platform.
 
JCarp16 said:
Where the two cars sell in the same markets. In South America Fiat sells different models designed for that specific market (where VW sells the Up). But from a European standpoint almost twice as many cars is still an achievement.
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It is. Listen I’m not saying the Panda is a bad car, but it is getting long in the tooth and it can’t continue on this route for much longer.
 
306maxi said:
Across Europe, but we’re in the U.K.

The Up sells rather well here in the segment.

As for VW stopping selling the Up, I very much doubt that’s going to happen. VW group strategy is to have a car in every single segment and further to that, to sometimes have a VW, Skoda, Seat and Audi in the same segment. It should be noted that the Panda will sell for a lot less than the Up, hence VW will be making more profit on each car and I suspect more profit in total.
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Yep, because the UK is a VAG minded country. ;)
VW can stop with the up! and still have 2 cars in that segment.
 
The Pretender said:
Yep, because the UK is a VAG minded country. ;)
VW can stop with the up! and still have 2 cars in that segment.
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Like I said, that’s not how VAG work. They maximise profits by having as many brands in a segment and as many different options in terms of price point. The Fox and Lupo didn’t really succeed in the sector, the Up has done far far better even though it fetches a higher price than its predecessors.
 
306maxi said:
Across Europe, but we’re in the U.K.



The Up sells rather well here in the segment.



As for VW stopping selling the Up, I very much doubt that’s going to happen. VW group strategy is to have a car in every single segment and further to that, to sometimes have a VW, Skoda, Seat and Audi in the same segment. It should be noted that the Panda will sell for a lot less than the Up, hence VW will be making more profit on each car and I suspect more profit in total.
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Actually VAG have announced they are not going to be replacing the UP! And co. This is simply because VAG is currently focusing on a massive cost cutting exercise, this is clearly evidenced in the hard plastic interior of the new T-Roc.. The main reason for cutting it though is that it is simply to expensive for VW to produce. They don’t make any profit on them. It’s sits on its own unique platform, and the moment VW is spinning every single car off one platform the MQB to make everything cheaper to produce. The platform can’t be made small enough though for an UP size vehicle, the Polo/Ibiza is as small as it will go is my understanding
 
JimbbobW1977 said:
Actually VAG have announced they are not going to be replacing the UP! And co. This is simply because VAG is currently focusing on a massive cost cutting exercise, this is clearly evidenced in the hard plastic interior of the new T-Roc.. The main reason for cutting it though is that it is simply to expensive for VW to produce. They don’t make any profit on them. It’s sits on its own unique platform, and the moment VW is spinning every single car off one platform the MQB to make everything cheaper to produce. The platform can’t be made small enough though for an UP size vehicle, the Polo/Ibiza is as small as it will go is my understanding
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Yep, The massive cost cutting exercise can also been seen in the T-Roc brother, Audi Q2.
And yes, the next Audi A1 will be, like the Polo/Ibiza be build on the MQB platform, and being the smallest configuration possible on the MQB platform. ;)

The VAG tripling will not be replaced according to Volkswagen in some statement to a car medium recently.
Although car magazines tell otherwise to there readers. :rolleyes:
 
SB1500 said:
The Panda as a product is clearly what more people want vs the Up. Hence how it out sells it. Consistently.
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Have a look at how many Pandas are sold outside of Italy and see if you come to the same conclusion. The European figures for the Panda are massively skewed by domestic Italian sales.
 
306maxi said:
It is. Listen I’m not saying the Panda is a bad car, but it is getting long in the tooth and it can’t continue on this route for much longer.
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True. It does need a replacement. But I think they need to sort the Punto first. That really is ancient now.
 
JimbbobW1977 said:
Actually VAG have announced they are not going to be replacing the UP! And co. This is simply because VAG is currently focusing on a massive cost cutting exercise, this is clearly evidenced in the hard plastic interior of the new T-Roc.. The main reason for cutting it though is that it is simply to expensive for VW to produce. They don’t make any profit on them. It’s sits on its own unique platform, and the moment VW is spinning every single car off one platform the MQB to make everything cheaper to produce. The platform can’t be made small enough though for an UP size vehicle, the Polo/Ibiza is as small as it will go is my understanding
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That’s not strictly true though. You’ve still got MSB and MLB as well and AFAIK there’s no plan to replace them. I mean you can’t build a Urus and a Polo off the same platform. The fact that the Up is still being made suggests that it’s profitable and although they might not be able to get it into MQB it doesn’t mean there’s no chance of it being replaced.
 
gazz_bee said:
Have a look at how many Pandas are sold outside of Italy and see if you come to the same conclusion. The European figures for the Panda are massively skewed by domestic Italian sales.
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So maybe we should take countries out of the equation that all favour their home product then?
With the exception of the UK - most of whom seem to think Fords are still made in Dagenham and all Vauxhalls in Elsmere Port.
 
JCarp16 said:
True. It does need a replacement. But I think they need to sort the Punto first. That really is ancient now.
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In terms of platform the Panda is older. I wish they had a better vision for what they’re doing. They launch models and then don’t fully flesh out the range and leave them to stagnate and become unattractive. The 500 shows that they can make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, I wish they’d do it more often.
 
JCarp16 said:
So maybe we should take countries out of the equation that all favour their home product then?
With the exception of the UK - most of whom seem to think Fords are still made in Dagenham and all Vauxhalls in Elsmere Port.
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Fords are generally OK though, why anyone anywhere ever buys a Pauxhall I will never know.
 
306maxi said:
In terms of platform the Panda is older. I wish they had a better vision for what they’re doing. They launch models and then don’t fully flesh out the range and leave them to stagnate and become unattractive. The 500 shows that they can make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, I wish they’d do it more often.
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Marchionne's product strategy is more reactive than proactive. For example - SUVs are selling well - let's just concentrate on them at the expense of everything else. He can be credited with turning things around but a change at the top is well overdue.
 
306maxi said:
Why anyone anywhere ever buys a Pauxhall I will never know.
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Habit? Dealership infrastructure? It's what everyone else does? Discounts? Availablity? Most people I know just go out and buy the first thing that they know about. So if it's very common it's unlikely they'll look elsewhere.
Ford was like this for years when they were producing absolute dross but it didn't matter because people bought them anyway. Their products are much better these days but they're now losing out to premium marques - real ones and those that are perceived to be.
 
JCarp16 said:
So maybe we should take countries out of the equation that all favour their home product then?
With the exception of the UK - most of whom seem to think Fords are still made in Dagenham and all Vauxhalls in Elsmere Port.
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Merely pointing out that the statistical data on European sales being healthy is misleading. Of the 171,000 Fiat Panda's sold in 2015, 45,000 were sold outside Italy. That presents a completely different position on its popularity and why Fiat need to develop their products proactively.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/417585/italy-leading-car-brand-sales/
 
I don't mind Vauxhalls tbh. Granted, they haven't made a car that particularly appeals to me cosmetically for several years, but certainly, if you're not especially interested in cars they do the job perfectly well. My parents have a very old Vauxhall, and whilst it's a bit bland and lacking in flair, it continues to meet their needs rather excellently.

Certainly, Vauxhalls are no worse than fords when it comes to design, yet for some reason, a lot of ford owners seem smug about their cars. ?

There's never been a better time to be a premium brand: even if your product is no better than those made by cheaper brands, people will still happily pay way over the odds for it.
 
puntofan01 said:
I don't mind Vauxhalls tbh. Granted, they haven't made a car that particularly appeals to me cosmetically for several years, but certainly, if you're not especially interested in cars they do the job perfectly well. My parents have a very old Vauxhall, and whilst it's a bit bland and lacking in flair, it continues to meet their needs rather excellently.

Certainly, Vauxhalls are no worse than fords when it comes to design, yet for some reason, a lot of ford owners seem smug about their cars. [emoji52]

There's never been a better time to be a premium brand: even if your product is no better than those made by cheaper brands, people will still happily pay way over the odds for it.
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Ford owners seem smug about their cars? I’m not sure about that comment? [emoji23]

I wouldn’t say I’m smug about owning a Ford at all! I bought one because it offered the best value vs reliability, equipment and driving pleasure. Ford generally isn’t a brand you ‘aspire’ to own to feel smug about!

As for where it’s built it’s a true global product car! Built in Spain, with a French engine, designed in the USA, using some parts from Mexico (that’s where it’s washer bottle is made)
 
Perhaps it's just the ford owners I know, lol! 1 of my work colleagues likes to poke fun at me, even though my 2008 Grande Punto has got more kit than his 2011 focus! ? I remember once seeing an immense discussion on Facebook between 2 people I know as whether ford or vw was best, which made me chuckle.
 
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