You seem to have an inferiority complex if you think that someone with a 10k 4 year old BMW owns their car to impress everyone else! Most of the cars at work are newer and more expensive than mine anyway.
General Facelift Fiat Panda 319.
- Thread starter The Pretender
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General Facelift Fiat Panda 319.
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Ok you got me? My company actually pays me to go on FCA sites and sabotage sales for them in the hope that they’ll by one of our cars, don’t tell anyone though, it’s a massive secret!
Yes - it’s the Fiat engine, albeit in the Panda it had 70bhp the 90bhp was always laggier than 70/75bhp versions. The engine itself used the 1.2 fire as it’s basis. Once going it’s not to bad in the Astra, not fast at all but okay.
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The most underpowered Astra I've driven was a 1.4 hire car about 12 years ago. We were traveling around farms in Lincolnshire taking samples of soil and crops. I remember trying to overtake someone and it became apparent that I had bitten off more than I could chew - I turned the aircon off in a vain attempt to coax a few more horses out of the bloody thing.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
You have exactly hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned. I don't doubt the Up clones are competent in most respects but I have looked and considered them and cannot amass even a slight degree of interest in them. Panda makes me both happy and mad (fuel economy) but it has something I cannot identify that makes me smile from ear to ear when i drive it. It seems to have a soul and the 100HP was quite astounding in every way. If I won the lottery I would build a handful new from spares.
No it doesn’t! It even gets beaten by the Skoda Citigo.
https://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/SMMT-Motor-Industry-Facts-2017_2-online.pdf
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The number one city car falls short of the Panda
https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=453753
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Last year's Europe car sales the Panda sold 180,000 and the Up 95,000.
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Across Europe, but we’re in the U.K.
The Up sells rather well here in the segment.
As for VW stopping selling the Up, I very much doubt that’s going to happen. VW group strategy is to have a car in every single segment and further to that, to sometimes have a VW, Skoda, Seat and Audi in the same segment. It should be noted that the Panda will sell for a lot less than the Up, hence VW will be making more profit on each car and I suspect more profit in total.
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It's more realistic to consider all markets that a car sells in to reduce bias. For example Fords sell really well in the UK but they are a rarer sight in Europe. Yes VW sells a lot more cars - but it's a much bigger company. Only Toyota outsells it globally. So the fact that a smaller company, with less resources can produce a car that outsells the Up globally is relevant. Imagine what they could do with the same amount of cash and resources...
Panda outsells the Up globally.
The stats say Europe, let’s not stretch further than we actually know.
Like I said, the Up and it’s cohorts outsell the Panda in the U.K.
The fact that VW have just released an Up GTI suggests that VW aren’t done with the segment.
Wish we could justify a Panda but it is not quite big enough. The Qubo is, we have one, like it too, cheap motoring, much underrated family car. It is not a motorway cruiser either though not tiring over very long distances. Fiat don't do a motorway cruiser in my opinion, unfortunately, but that is far from the Panda target segment. Big German cars are excellent on the motorway, even old ones, and I might have one too if I had such a commute. Right now I can't find a bigger new car that really appeals to me. The Panda will always be my choice as a smaller car.
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Toyota doesn’t outsell VW....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertel...l-automakers-psa-out-daimler-in/#f3db16f1a8b3
You also don’t have global sales figures for the Up or the Panda, so you can’t make that claim. VW are in far more markets globally than Fiat are. The important thing is profit, VW make vastly more profit.
http://www.thedrive.com/news/8575/volkswagen-ag-posts-record-profit-for-2016
Have a look for what FCA’s profit for 2016 was and compare it to the profits of some of the individual VAG companies.
FCA could do better if they had more money, but they don’t have more money because the product isn’t what people want and they don’t sell as well.
The Panda as a product is clearly what more people want vs the Up. Hence how it out sells it. Consistently.
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If you're so obsessed about profit why don't you compare Toyota vs VW profit margins? On one hand you argue they're number 1 (using figures from last summer) on the other you say profit is most important. FCA profit margins are partly affected by the fact that they are continuously paying off debt and aiming to be debt free by the end of next year. In order to invest in product you need cash - German automakers are cash rich partly because they own their own finance companies plus they had that cartel going for a while which didn't hurt their margins either...
I was talking about the U.K which is where we both are unless I’m very much mistaken?
I think it’s very important to consider what’s happening in the UK and it’s a window into what’s going to happen in the future.
The market is starting to favour cars from the more premium end of the market and cars at the lower end are becoming less popular and in time will become unprofitable.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertel...l-automakers-psa-out-daimler-in/#20dd26d91a8b
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/94280/best-selling-cars-in-the-uk-2017
Daimler is on the rise as well and the A and C classes are within the top 10 sellers in the U.K. the fact that cars as expensive as the A and C are outselling far cheaper cars is telling of the direction we’re heading in.
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Where the two cars sell in the same markets. In South America Fiat sells different models designed for that specific market (where VW sells the Up). But from a European standpoint almost twice as many cars is still an achievement.
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