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Old 6 Days Ago   #646
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
I thought they were going to make turbocharged firefly engines though?
Yes, they will in the near future.
But now they are changing the engine factory in Poland for the production start of non turbo 3 and 4 cylinder Firefly engines.
Those will replace the old 69 hp 1.2ltr FIRE and 65/85/105 hp TwinAir engines.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #647
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
It could be a 'light hybrid' like the one Suzuki use - just a beefed up starter motor.
A mild Hybrid system could first come in play on the new Firefly engines.
It would not make sense to introduce this on the old FIRE and TwinAir engines.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #648
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
Yes, they will in the near future.
But now they are changing the engine factory in Poland for the production start of non turbo 3 and 4 cylinder Firefly engines.
Those will replace the old 69 hp 1.2ltr FIRE and 65/85/105 hp TwinAir engines.
I see! When is TwinAir and Fire engine production going to end? I thought the TwinAir was meant to be finished by April this year? Presumably, these will be the last ever engines that Fiat introduce, seeing as the internal combustion engine will become a thing of the past in 20 years time?
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Last edited by puntofan01; 6 Days Ago at 19:43.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #649
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Am I the only person who prefers a non turbocharged engine? The beauty of the simplicity and non-dependence on a complex system for basic power.

I love the fact the petrol in my car responds quicker than half the diesels on the road. No turbo needed , even at the cost of excess unneeded power for carting about one person
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Old 5 Days Ago   #650
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
Am I the only person who prefers a non turbocharged engine? The beauty of the simplicity and non-dependence on a complex system for basic power.

I love the fact the petrol in my car responds quicker than half the diesels on the road. No turbo needed , even at the cost of excess unneeded power for carting about one person
No. I love NA engines. However, I have a turbo for the first time and I love the torque - the way it pulls in-gear when the turbo has spooled up and the noise. I still think I prefer NA but having previously owned a 1.2 Fire engined car over 90,000 miles I do prefer the character of a turbocharged TA. It's mostly not rational - the 1.2 is smoother, easier to drive (especially around town) and gets good economy with little effort or thought. It's also a sweeter unit. But it would have struggled (comparatively) to the TA on my recent trip to Wales where the TA took on hills with ease, pulled brilliantly on the motorway keeping up with the fast moving traffic with little forward planning. It's also great for overtaking farm traffic on roads wth few overtaking possibilities. I wasn't sure about choosing the TA over the 1.2 when I bought my car but it suits the type of driving I do. Horses for courses, I guess.
In supercars (if ever I become that rich!) - NA everytime - they sound so much better at full chat.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #651
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

The 1.2ltr FIRE engine is a Peach, I drove one in the Panda 169 for 3 Years.
But it is underpowered in the 319 for my liking and driving.
The only reason i bought a TwinAir turbo, is because of the better performance in the heavier Panda 319, i drove the Panda 319 with 1.2ltr FIRE and 85TA back to back and ending up buying the 85TA.
One thing about the 85 TA i don't like is peddling around town, you can't use 5th gear around town up to 50 Km/h, you need to shift down to 4th.
You would think being a turbo engine it would be able to do that because of the low end torque.
Would i buy a non turbo engine again ?? Maybe if the new 1332cc 4 cylinder 8v Firefly engine will come available in the this Gen Panda 319.
Otherwise i would look for something else with 4 cylinders.
Drove a UP! TSI with 90 hp 3 cylinder turbo, did not like that at all (my Panda drive better) so will not buy a 3 cylinder Firefly with or without turbo.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #652
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
The 1.2ltr FIRE engine is a Peach, I drove one in the Panda 169 for 3 Years.
But it is underpowered in the 319 for my liking and driving.
The only reason i bought a TwinAir turbo, is because of the better performance in the heavier Panda 319, i drove the Panda 319 with 1.2ltr FIRE and 85TA back to back and ending up buying the 85TA.
One thing about the 85 TA i don't like is peddling around town, you can't use 5th gear around town up to 50 Km/h, you need to shift down to 4th.
You would think being a turbo engine it would be able to do that because of the low end torque.
Would i buy a non turbo engine again ?? Maybe if the new 1332cc 4 cylinder 8v Firefly engine will come available in the this Gen Panda 319.
Otherwise i would look for something else with 4 cylinders.
Drove a UP! TSI with 90 hp 3 cylinder turbo, did not like that at all (my Panda drive better) so will not buy a 3 cylinder Firefly with or without turbo.
You might like a different 3 cylinder. I have a car with the VW 3 cylinder engine and find it a bit coarse. However I drove a Daihatsu Charade a while back and the 3 cylinder in that was brilliant.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #653
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
You might like a different 3 cylinder. I have a car with the VW 3 cylinder engine and find it a bit coarse. However I drove a Daihatsu Charade a while back and the 3 cylinder in that was brilliant.
Everything depend on a point of reference.
I drove 15 years Audi 5 cylinder engines (the best there is IMHO) then 18 years Fiat 4 cylinder FIRE engines (750, 1000, 1100 and 1200, great engines) and now around 24 months 85 TA's (performance wise OK but other then that not my thing) Fuel consumption is terrible for a small 875cc engine, 400 Km with 30ltr fuel is a stretch, it's more like 360-380 Km.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #654
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
Everything depend on a point of reference.
I drove 15 years Audi 5 cylinder engines (the best there is IMHO) then 18 years Fiat 4 cylinder FIRE engines (750, 1000, 1100 and 1200, great engines) and now around 24 months 85 TA's (performance wise OK but other then that not my thing) Fuel consumption is terrible for a small 875cc engine, 400 Km with 30ltr fuel is a stretch, it's more like 360-380 Km.
So this is your last TA then? I thought you liked them - didn't you tune your last one to 120 bhp?
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Old 5 Days Ago   #655
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
So this is your last TA then? I thought you liked them - didn't you tune your last one to 120 bhp?
Performance wise, yes, and the Panda is a cool car for what it is.
Definitely my last TA, i only bought this one, because i totaled mine beloved Blue one last January, and had a lot of Panda parts that i don't want to go to waste.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #656
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
So this is your last TA then? I thought you liked them - didn't you tune your last one to 120 bhp?
P.S. i'm not the only one that don't really like them.
In the Nederlands the Panda did not very well at first, because the lack of the 1.2ltr FIRE engine.
A lot of people like the Panda very much but abandon ship after the 85 TA testdrive.
Now with the 1.2ltr FIRE available most buy that, even a lot trade there 85 TA's in for it.
The 1.2ltr FIRE is a much smoother engine, better fuel consumption and a little less performance.
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
Everything depend on a point of reference.
I drove 15 years Audi 5 cylinder engines (the best there is IMHO) then 18 years Fiat 4 cylinder FIRE engines (750, 1000, 1100 and 1200, great engines) and now around 24 months 85 TA's (performance wise OK but other then that not my thing) Fuel consumption is terrible for a small 875cc engine, 400 Km with 30ltr fuel is a stretch, it's more like 360-380 Km.
I liked the Audi 5 cylinder - we had an Audi GT when I was growing up - the one that spawned the quattro. I also loved the 2.0 Twin Spark in my father's Alfa Spider - sounded great in tunnels.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #658
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
Now with the 1.2ltr FIRE available most buy that, even a lot trade there 85 TA's in for it.
The 1.2ltr FIRE is a much smoother engine, better fuel consumption and a little less performance.
Right on. I had the TA less than a week and couldn't get along with it. Much happier with the silent/smooth 1.2, despite the lack of torque. 1.4 was wonderful but needed the standard suspension and turning circle.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #659
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by AB100 View Post
Right on. I had the TA less than a week and couldn't get along with it. Much happier with the silent/smooth 1.2, despite the lack of torque. 1.4 was wonderful but needed the standard suspension and turning circle.
It is a smooth engine, it's also capable of a lot of miles if looked after. I liked the 16V version in my old Punto. That was a gem. I would've liked to have seen a higher power version in the Panda Mk 3 - this was not available, hence I got a TA (I also liked the noise the TA makes - somewhere between a lawnmower on steroids and a Merlin, sometimes sounding like a mini V8 when chugging along at low speed. I think I'm just too fond of quirky over common sense.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #660
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Re: Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

Quote Originally Posted by AB100 View Post
Right on. I had the TA less than a week and couldn't get along with it. Much happier with the silent/smooth 1.2, despite the lack of torque. 1.4 was wonderful but needed the standard suspension and turning circle.
Small volume engines perform better with less and bigger valves, like the 1.2ltr-8v FIRE engine.
Fiat could opted for the 85 hp 1.2-16v FIRE engine (Punto) instead of a turbo TwinAir.
Panda's would probably sell a lot better with it.
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