Despite all our precious, partisan views, a lot of the cars we drive are assembled from components from the same suppliers, personnel move between companies as do ideas and technology - everything is more closely related under the skin than we perceive (our Skoda and Fiat both have Magnetti Marelli components under the bonnet, as well as those from Bosch and those made in house). If one company feels a tie-up or collaboration will benefit them it won't stop them working together. They'll take the best from one another - in every large company there's a resource that's of interest to others - something they do better than anyone - even if it's the ability to produce something that's of good value for the investment put in - the ability to build it for the 'right price' in the 'right place'.

The term VAG sums up that entire entity and it’s fans remarkably well!!!

I must admit, I would be surprised to see Fiat and vag working together in car design, as surely there'd be too much rivalry? You'd have Fiat, Skoda, Seat and low spec vws battling 1 another for sales, and then you'd have Alfa Romeo, and to a certain extent Jeep/Chrysler, battling higher spec vws and audis for sales. Would that work?

FCA really need a boost in its product line up now as a lot of its products are past their best now bar the Giulia and Stelvio. That’s not saying all it’s other models are bad they are not the most competitive.

VAG would certainly not be the answer though. They have removed all of the uniqueness of Skoda and Seat sadly and reliability probably worse than FCA products.

Anything made by vag is the very epitome of soulless tbh.

JimbbobW1977 said:

They have removed all of the uniqueness of Skoda and Seat.

Click to expand...

In the case of the most recent small SUVs that's particularly evident. Blink and you'll miss the difference. The Up clones are the same. It's not even 'badge engineering' - just a different badge on the same car and some trim changes. Why even bother to have different brands if you're not going to use them properly? At least with the Yeti and the Roomster etc you had cars that were Skodas - a little different from other offerings elsewhere in the organisation.

JCarp16 said:

In the case of the most recent small SUVs that's particularly evident. Blink and you'll miss the difference. The Up clones are the same. It's not even 'badge engineering' - just a different badge on the same car and some trim changes. Why even bother to have different brands if you're not going to use them properly? At least with the Yeti and the Roomster etc you had cars that were Skodas - a little different from other offerings elsewhere in the organisation.

Click to expand...

That’s the thing though with VAG they use about 3 different platforms these days mostly MQB based cars and then everything is spawned off it from the new Polo/Ibiza through to the Superb, Passat, Tiguan etc.

I had a new A3 1.6tdi as a courtesy car and it was merely okay and no where good as the press rave. The engine was agricultural and economy poor, the rear suspension was very basic torsion beam, and it had rattles.

puntofan01 said:

Anything made by vag is the very epitome of soulless tbh.

Click to expand...

Lamborghini, Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti...

I think VW cooperation is an old story, more than 6months and VW CO gave up this oportunity. The only news i hear is about HYUNDAI. The only real thing is that all fiat engines are outdated. I believe that FIREFLY is not a a big step in the future since most competitors have brand new small petrol turbo angines and at list a mild hydrid systems. My opinion is that FIAT must find a solution very quick and thats why CO is searching a collaboration.

FCA could consider VAG as soon as VAG learn how to build a proper engine.

306maxi said:

Lamborghini, Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti...

Click to expand...

Even billionaires avoid those cars because they share parts.. at least Ferrari design every car and every part to be unique to the model. When it comes to buying these super cars as investments that matters. Not buying a Porsche 911 that shares components with a meet Audi...

SB1500 said:

Even billionaires avoid those cars because they share parts.. at least Ferrari design every car and every part to be unique to the model. When it comes to buying these super cars as investments that matters. Not buying a Porsche 911 that shares components with a meet Audi...

Click to expand...

What a load of ********. All cars share components at some level. The 911 will share very little with any Audi, perhaps you with have the digital dash and the screen on the dash as well as the electronics driving that, but that’ll be about it.

You obviously have no idea about cars.

306maxi said:

What a load of ********. All cars share components at some level. The 911 will share very little with any Audi, perhaps you with have the digital dash and the screen on the dash as well as the electronics driving that, but that’ll be about it.



You obviously have no idea about cars.

Click to expand...

Well, I’m no “engineer” [emoji6]

I never said I was an engineer though. I work in engineering within a car company. But hey, working in an engineering department wouldn’t give you a better understanding of the industry now would it?

I'm sure most buyers don't much care about the car's engineering. Price, economy, equipment, paper-stats (0-60 yawn) occasionally and 'looks'.

Little separates one car from another generally. Looks/style and perceived quality plus a few nick-nacks. It staggers me that someone would pay £40000 for a car that does little more than our Pandas but they do.

As for FIAT - I think their main shareholder-worry would be a lack of any decent electric infrastructure. Maybe Elon Musk will throw them a bone or maybe a Chinese company.

You’ve never drive any of these cars have you?

I sat in a 911 back in July in a pop up store in Liverpool. The gearshift was absolutely stunningly gorgeous to operate.

If you don’t understand why someone would buy a 3 series or a 911 or a Chiron over a Panda then I think you don’t really get cars.

306maxi said:

You’ve never drive any of these cars have you?

I sat in a 911 back in July in a pop up store in Liverpool. The gearshift was absolutely stunningly gorgeous to operate.

If you don’t understand why someone would buy a 3 series or a 911 or a Chiron over a Panda then I think you don’t really get cars.

Click to expand...

I don't get what your 'concept' of cars is, no. I suspect I'm not alone there on this forum. It doesn't make you right, it just means we appreciate different aspects.

I would also doubt that the majority of the folks who buy those cars are appreciating the engineering the way that you're appreciating it. They're probably just channelling Clarkson and wondering how many torques it has.

AB100 said:

I don't get what your 'concept' of cars is, no. I suspect I'm not alone there on this forum. It doesn't make you right, it just means we appreciate different aspects.



I would also doubt that the majority of the folks who buy those cars are appreciating the engineering the way that you're appreciating it. They're probably just channelling Clarkson and wondering how many torques it has.

Click to expand...

I think 306’s concept it ‘it costs more money, its better’.


One could argue that a REAL car is one that is practical, easy to run and reliable. Something none of the aforementioned entry level sports cars are.

So on that basis, a Panda is superior. And it’s basic engineering - still engineering - is superior in that it requires less maintenance and stringent care to work the way it was made to. It’s not all about horsepower and leather lined dashboards! And to quote James May; it’s not all about the power you have, it’s about the amount you can use. And in something like a Panda or 500 you can push it to its limits pretty much all of the time! Plus the rolling body and tiny tyres can be ‘fun’ too. If you know how to push it!!!

Of course, disagree with 306 and you’ll be made out to be an idiot. But I’m sure every rational reader of this comment sees the point im making! Nothing too hard to comprehend!

My concept of cars is varied.

I’m not some moron who thinks that a car that has 250bhp is automatically better than a car that only has 247bhp.

Yes, a lot of people just buy cars to impress other people which is rather sad tbh. But a lot of people really do get cars.

We’ve got a Facebook group here at work for people who genuinely love their cars. People own anything from 911s, Boxters, Exiges, Elise’s, Imprezas, there are a few Fiat owners, a good few BMW M cars and more nice cars that you can shake a stick at, the guy a couple of desks down from me even races 2CVs, I’m no bhp whore though...

The Panda is a great little car, but it was launched back in 2003, that’s a decade and a half ago now. Fiat haven’t really innovated or diversified their portfolio in that time.

VW probably sell as many Seats as Fiat sell Fiat’s. It’s a sad state of affairs.

Seriously though, try some nicer and more expensive cars, you might be surprised at just how nice they are to be in.

SB1500 said:

I think 306’s concept it ‘it costs more money, its better’.


One could argue that a REAL car is one that is practical, easy to run and reliable. Something none of the aforementioned entry level sports cars are.

So on that basis, a Panda is superior. And it’s basic engineering - still engineering - is superior in that it requires less maintenance and stringent care to work the way it was made to. It’s not all about horsepower and leather lined dashboards! And to quote James May; it’s not all about the power you have, it’s about the amount you can use. And in something like a Panda or 500 you can push it to its limits pretty much all of the time! Plus the rolling body and tiny tyres can be ‘fun’ too. If you know how to push it!!!

Of course, disagree with 306 and you’ll be made out to be an idiot. But I’m sure every rational reader of this comment sees the point im making! Nothing too hard to comprehend!

Click to expand...

I never said that :laugh:

Practicality is better? How is a Panda overall more practical than let’s just say... my Diesel 3 series estate which didn’t cost much more than a Panda. It was used of course, but the fact still stands.