Hello all,

My Panda is going after almost 18 months of ownership.
You may have read my rant about fiat customer care on another thread? I've fallen out of love with the little car and it's all over silly niggles. Fiat really don't care, so I can't see me coming back to the brand, unless the price persuaded me.

I'm going electric! I've had on loan over the last few weeks a Renault Zoe and 2 different nissan leafs.
The leaf really is an ugly car IMO, and the Zoe is lovely looking. However when it comes to driving experience, the leaf is a much better car.
It feels solid, and very well put together. The Zoe was much worse than my Panda for build quality. Shut lines were off and the bumpers were a different shade to the rest of the car! Very poor really. When you pull the doors closed they were very tinny. The panda is much more solid and so is the leaf.
Reading about many charging problems with the Zoe has put the final nail in the coffin on that one, although I was tempted as I love the look and the contract hire figures were very good.

The leaf is a lovely car to drive. If you've never driven electric you should give it a try. The instant power is verging on funny. Floor it at 20mph and the front tyres chirp with the instant shove. They waft along like a Bentley too. It's serene.

During my time with these electric cars I was testing range possibilities for my work route. I found in the leaf which was a little more efficient than the Zoe, that driven conservatively I could get over 5 miles per k/Wh. The car has a 24k/Wh battery pack. So up to 120 miles? On a different day I did my usual route to work and back but this time absolutely caned the car at every opportunity. I took it up to 94mph, drove at 75 on the motorway and overtook at every opportunity. The consumption dropped to 4 miles k/Wh.
An observation I made was electric cars are the total opposite to ice cars when it comes to efficiency in urban and extra urban environments.
Air resistance batters the battery! Whereas in town when red lights make you loose all your energy into heat on the brakes in an internal combustion engined car, the electric cars regenerate that kinetic energy back into the battery.

I wasn't going to jump into buying a leaf until Christmas when the value of my panda would have been better , and the price of the leaf most prob would have been better too. I was sent an offer of the decade yesterday though which equates to less then my monthly petrol bill on the panda, so that's pushed me.
I've solar panels on my house too, so I'm estimating my monthly fuel bill to be less than £10.
Nissan also support the customer with free rapid 30 minute (0-80% charge) at any of their dealers equipped with charging stations and also free ice loan cars up to 14 days at a time for longer journeys as in going to France on holiday

I need to apply for an ecotricity card which will then give you access to free charging in many public places around the uk. IKEA is one place you'll find them.

Any car under 75g/km emissions at this time which may well be only pure electric or plug in hybrid also attract 100% capital write down in the first year so being self employed I have that bonus too!

The decision has to get a leaf has been mostly financial. I'll save over £250 a month running it over my panda. No extortionate servicing costs either. The fact that the car drives so nicely and serenely is a bonus.

So if anyone wants a 15000 mile panda 4x4, give me a shout. I'll also be selling the roof bars and the summer alloys/tyres orange mirror caps too.

The leaf is a car that if it had a petrol engine would be an almera, but it being electric just makes it cooler. We would have had a look at one if we had off street parking but the lack of that and living near to a pub had us imagining coming out one day to find someone had unplugged it in the night. That although most our trips are easily coverable in one it'd make more sense if perhaps they used part of the huge boot to house a range extending engine under the floor.

The car wings business looks really cool, being able to set your car to defrost and heat it's seats from your bed wouldn't get old.

There are plenty of cars qualifying for 100% FYA if you don't want electric - a list is at http://comcar.co.uk/advanced/selector/profiles/FirstYearAllowance?clk=1 The current figure is not more than 95g.

I view 100% FYA as a mixed blessing as it's only a timing issue. Say you pay £18k for a Leaf, claim the £18k in your accounts and then sell it 3 years later (residual expected is 47% at 3 years and 30k miles I believe). You've then got a balancing charge of £9540 to add to your profits (53%) when you sell, cease the business, etc. 3 years worth of 18% WDA on a normal (under 130g) car will leave you with a balance of £9924 in the accounts and nothing to add to your profits (in fact a balancing allowance). You pays your money & takes your choice - apart from timing there is no benefit to the FYA!

Don't forget to put a classified advert up - that's where a for sale should be, and no one on the main part of the forum will find it if you don't. :idea:

deeyup said:

Hello all,

My Panda is going after almost 18 months of ownership.
You may have read my rant about fiat customer care on another thread? I've fallen out of love with the little car and it's all over silly niggles. Fiat really don't care, so I can't see me coming back to the brand, unless the price persuaded me.

I'm going electric!....

....

Click to expand...

Pity that you feel let down - and by details that are not so hard to eradicate if the supplier, and its agents, can be arsed.

My 4x4 TA has done a similar mileage, including two trips to Italy. Apart from a Stop/Start niggle, which was sorted right away, I've had zero problems (and almost fifty years of owning Italian cars have been remarkably trouble-free), but you can only base your decisions on your own experiences.

Good luck with the experiment.

(By the way, is there a formula for relating electric consumption to petrol/diesel?)

Nice one buddy!

I know you have mentioned before about electric cars, it'll certainly be different to the Panda

Shame you have fallen out of love with the Panda though. Truth be told, we won't be keeping ours long-term either (although you may have gathered that anyway).

I have no complaints whatsoever with the way it has been for us; in fact, it's been absolutely superb for us with two small kids. Totally reliable and cheap to run as well. And bucket loads of space too - it was only the other day that I went to pick up a three-seater leather sofa with it. Fitted with about 20cm overhang out the boot (so I had to have the tailgate open), but it was safely in there.

But we just don't love it - it's as simple as that. However, we have a lot of negative equity in our PCP deal (mainly because we paid almost list price in 2012, and now the damn thing is cheap as chips) So even if we want to get something else, it could be a while...

babbo_umbro said:

Good luck with the experiment.

(By the way, is there a formula for relating electric consumption to petrol/diesel?)

Click to expand...

Thanks for that.

There is a rough formula for working out fuel costings.
If the car has a 24 k/Wh battery then multiply your tariff by that.

I found I was getting. 5miles per k/Wh at 12p.

My work route is is 45 miles so around 1 gallon = 4.55 litres @ £1.30 so that's almost £6.

9x 12p is just over a quid.
Plus I have solar Pv generating up to 24k/Wh a day so that sucks up a lot.

The only other costing which would be very heavy for a battery car is depreciation. As soon as they bring out a 200 mile range one the 100 mile one will be nigh on worthless.
This deal is a pcp though so I have non intention of holding on to the car when it expires in 2 years time.

Super Uwe said:

Nice one buddy!

I know you have mentioned before about electric cars, it'll certainly be different to the Panda

Shame you have fallen out of love with the Panda though. Truth be told, we won't be keeping ours long-term either (although you may have gathered that anyway).

I have no complaints whatsoever with the way it has been for us; in fact, it's been absolutely superb for us with two small kids. Totally reliable and cheap to run as well. And bucket loads of space too - it was only the other day that I went to pick up a three-seater leather sofa with it. Fitted with about 20cm overhang out the boot (so I had to have the tailgate open), but it was safely in there.

But we just don't love it - it's as simple as that. However, we have a lot of negative equity in our PCP deal (mainly because we paid almost list price in 2012, and now the damn thing is cheap as chips) So even if we want to get something else, it could be a while...

Click to expand...

I'm glad your car has been faultless. The only fiat I've had like that was a 1995 punto 55s
All 3 new cars I've had have been delivered with faults.
This panda still isn't fixed after 18 months. I go away on holiday this coming week so I'm leaving the fiat with the dealer so they can have plenty of time to look at it.
I could just turn stop/start off but I like it (when it works)

Shame you have the negative equity. The price you pay for supporting fiat and being an early adopter.

Give me a shout when you are ready to change and I'll speak to Marc for you.

Palio said:

There are plenty of cars qualifying for 100% FYA if you don't want electric - a list is at http://comcar.co.uk/advanced/selector/profiles/FirstYearAllowance?clk=1 The current figure is not more than 95g.

I view 100% FYA as a mixed blessing as it's only a timing issue. Say you pay £18k for a Leaf, claim the £18k in your accounts and then sell it 3 years later (residual expected is 47% at 3 years and 30k miles I believe). You've then got a balancing charge of £9540 to add to your profits (53%) when you sell, cease the business, etc. 3 years worth of 18% WDA on a normal (under 130g) car will leave you with a balance of £9924 in the accounts and nothing to add to your profits (in fact a balancing allowance). You pays your money & takes your choice - apart from timing there is no benefit to the FYA!

Don't forget to put a classified advert up - that's where a for sale should be, and no one on the main part of the forum will find it if you don't. :idea:

Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I thought they lowered the limit to 75g for this year.
No matter anyhow as I'm committed now and the price has driven the decision. I'd had to pay for fuel in a 'regular' car too.

Thanks for a very interesting thread, with real information (rather than anecdote!)

I was very impressed with BMW's i3 (apart from the price ) but it's quite
unsuitable for my motoring, which is nearly all long trips (> 120 miles)

Right now, it's the new Renault Twingo which tempts me (if it drives as well
as its rear-engine design promises...) It should also be cheap, given the
intense competition in the city-car sector

My Panda Trekking TA continues to be very satisfying, despite trying to use
alternative means of travel (to cut carbon emissions) it's still accumulating
mileage quite rapidly!



Chris

Sorry to hear you are one of the modern " faithful" let down by FIAT UK,

When choosing my Twinair,
I had certainly considered the "alternative options",

but aircon / heating take a major toll on electric cars,
AND you'll always need something else for long journeys.

Charlie

varesecrazy said:

Sorry to hear you are one of the modern " faithful" let down by FIAT UK,

When choosing my Twinair,
I had certainly considered the "alternative options",

but aircon / heating take a major toll on electric cars,
AND you'll always need something else for long journeys.

Charlie

Click to expand...

The British built acenta and tekna model leafs have an air to air heat pump for cooling and heating which only uses 5% of the battery. Much better than the older and base model which is effected a lot more. I'm not worried by it.
Cold weather effects the battery too. Battery's don't like cold as many find out during the 1st days of winter cold weather when their cars won't crank.
My phone shut down once whilst I was in the snow dome in Manchester. I couldn't figure what was wrong. An hour later it came back on with plenty of battery.

As for long journeys, Nissan will loan you an ice car for up to 14 days free of charge. You only need to insure it.
That could work rather well if you had a long driving holiday coming up.

Moultoneer said:

Thanks for a very interesting thread, with real information (rather than anecdote!)

I was very impressed with BMW's i3 (apart from the price ) but it's quite
unsuitable for my motoring, which is nearly all long trips (> 120 miles)

Right now, it's the new Renault Twingo which tempts me (if it drives as well
as its rear-engine design promises...) It should also be cheap, given the
intense competition in the city-car sector

My Panda Trekking TA continues to be very satisfying, despite trying to use
alternative means of travel (to cut carbon emissions) it's still accumulating
mileage quite rapidly!



Chris

Click to expand...

Did you drive the i3? I really like the look of it and the performance is awesome!
0-60 in 7 seconds. That would suit me fine!

It only has 4 seats though and I need 5 for dropping the kids to school.
Plus it would be 3 to 4 times the cost of the leaf.

I'm very interested in cutting carbon emissions and more interested in saving money. If I could retro fit a ground source heat pump for a reasonable price I would. I already have solar Pv and that could run the pump. Free heating and cooling forever really.
I would have a pellet burner boiler for hot water as I have no roof left for solar thermal. And we can always grow more fuel for it.

The government cancelled the green deal all of a sudden a few days ago.
I can see why though. It's so open to abuse. All these companies taking big payments for work that could be done a lot cheaper. The pot has been used up.

I had fitted a few months ago a home wall charger to charge an electric vehicle.
Olev relaxed the rules so that anyone with off road parking and at least 2 bars of mobile phone signal could get one fitted for 75% off with maximum discount of £1000. Many companies absorb the other 25% so you get it for free. In reality these things cost nowhere near a grand! The aren't even a charger. The charger is onboard the car. They are just a socket or umbilical cord and plug connectd to your consumer unit with an rcd. They also have a mobile phone board in them so that the unit sends data to olev about usage. I always intended getting an ev one once they became affordable and I wasn't paying for the privilege, so felt justified applying for the home charge box.
How many that have been fitted and remain dormant I bet would make interesting reading. But each of these has been fitted and charged £1000 to olev.
They've now changed the application criteria so that you must own or about to own an ev. So not too late there really, but a massive chunk of the pot has been used already.
What they need to do is make a realistic payment for the work. 2 hours of the electricians time and the cost of the parts. None of this we'll give upto £1000 towards it. It's daft!

I'd love to be carbon neutral and I'm sure one day we'll all confirm to that.
Cars are catching up. The latest Skoda Octavia can be ordered with a solar panel sunroof. During sunny weather it powers the aircon to keep the cabin cool.
I think eventually we'll find the whole roof and maybe bonnet as solar panels. Why not? Even with a petrol car it could charge the 12v battery and make the car more economical as the alternator could switch off.

As for long journeys, Nissan will loan you an ice car for up to 14 days free of charge. You only need to insure it.
That could work rather well if you had a long driving holiday coming up.

Click to expand...

It would be more useful if it was three or four weeks though.
Retired people might like a longer, more relaxed, holiday

deeyup said:

Did you drive the i3? I really like the look of it and the performance is awesome!
0-60 in 7 seconds. That would suit me fine!

Click to expand...

You're turning into James May...!

He's just swapped his Mk3 Panda for an i3 (although I believe he's yet to take delivery...).

homeward said:

You're turning into James May...!

He's just swapped his Mk3 Panda for an i3 (although I believe he's yet to take delivery...).

Click to expand...

I'll have a race with captain slow any day of the week!

Sorry to hear you have decided to sell the Panda.

I've not covered the mileage you have - only 5300 miles in 14 months, but I can honestly say that thus far I still love the little 4x4.

It does everything I need it to and more and aside from the occasional annoyance re the stop-start has been reliable.

Now, if they'd been available at the time, maybe just maybe I'd have been tempted into an i3, however they are about twice the price so i probably could not have made a case for it.

If anything, i'm after another Panda for my son to use - but it would have to be a nearly new basic one, though with a/c. I just need the right deal to come up...

I'm not worried about selling the panda. I've had fun in it and 18 months is around the right time for me to get itchy feet.

I may get another used one in a few years as I do like the car. I don't like fiat uk's attitude to its customers though.

On another note. I'm in lanzarote at the moment. I've seen plenty of panda 4x4 new and old as rental cars. I should have got one as the terrain over here would be awesome to play on.