Chris, get yourself a fuelly account. It tracks your mpg tank to tank and is accurate. Although I've found that mostly my computer is usually around 1 mpg out, there have been occasions when it's been considerably more. 
General How happy are you really with your TA 85 engine.
- Thread starter The Pretender
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General How happy are you really with your TA 85 engine.
plonkers
New member
Does a remap take out the turbo lag when flooring it through the gears ,Is mpg improved
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I don't believe there's much lag when caning it, but rather something else is effecting the engine between gear changes.
I noticed a slight pause when reapply the power after a spirited gear change when "having fun".
It does feel kind of mechanical and false compared to other turbo engined cars I've driven.
Strangely with the TA there's hardly enough rpm drop off to effect the turbo as much as it seems, plus after the slight pause, it's bang on the power again, without the usual spool up.
I've come to the conclusion it's the valves.
I believe the Multiair system is opening the valves to reduce the engines pumping losses during gear changes and over run and the pause is it sorting out the valve timing again once you're on the power.
It's not usually noticeable everyday, but is when you are pushing it harder.
So every time you take your foot off the gas, it stops injecting fuel, then opens both inlet and exhaust valves so the pistons don't compress the air being sucked in.
This stops the drag on the engine, better known as engine braking (pumping effect) and aids the control of emissions, particularly Nitrogen Oxide due to the lower combustion temps which are usually controlled by unreliable EGRs.
Oddly enough I was discussing this with a plant engineer recently and it seems manufacturers of dumper trucks and the likes try to do the opposite, to increase engine pumping to stop the trucks "running away" when loaded, as it's a lot harder to hold back the weight on the brakes alone.
I noticed a slight pause when reapply the power after a spirited gear change when "having fun".
It does feel kind of mechanical and false compared to other turbo engined cars I've driven.
Strangely with the TA there's hardly enough rpm drop off to effect the turbo as much as it seems, plus after the slight pause, it's bang on the power again, without the usual spool up.
I've come to the conclusion it's the valves.
I believe the Multiair system is opening the valves to reduce the engines pumping losses during gear changes and over run and the pause is it sorting out the valve timing again once you're on the power.
It's not usually noticeable everyday, but is when you are pushing it harder.
So every time you take your foot off the gas, it stops injecting fuel, then opens both inlet and exhaust valves so the pistons don't compress the air being sucked in.
This stops the drag on the engine, better known as engine braking (pumping effect) and aids the control of emissions, particularly Nitrogen Oxide due to the lower combustion temps which are usually controlled by unreliable EGRs.
Oddly enough I was discussing this with a plant engineer recently and it seems manufacturers of dumper trucks and the likes try to do the opposite, to increase engine pumping to stop the trucks "running away" when loaded, as it's a lot harder to hold back the weight on the brakes alone.
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OP
OP
Most people say a remap transform the engine to a hole other level.
Also, most remaps include a raised idle, for a smooter engine run in idle.
babbo_umbro
Established member
As I think I noted in an earlier post, I'm sure the engine has a relatively heavy flywheel, to smooth out the twin cylinder-ness and - as stated above - the revs don't drop excessively on changing up but there is what feels like a management lag, rather than turbo. I'm experimenting with alternative rates of throttle opening - on the 100HP it was very noticeable that the quickest method was to keep the accelerator pedal just ahead of the revs, over-opening the throttle definitely adversely affected torque. I expected the TA to be the opposite - open the throttle wide after every gearchange and let the electronics sort things out - but I now think that you still need to feed the throttle in, ahead of the rev rise. Does anyone else think - as it appears to me - that the rev limiter cuts in a bit later this way as well?
I'm struggling with my TA, for comparison I drove the diesel Cross last week. That was much more pleasant at low speeds but not as good on the Motorway where the TA seems to excel for me (for a small car). Round town and low speed heavy traffic stuff I find it a right pain. Great car mind just wish it had the 100hp engine in it!
babbo_umbro
Established member
My previous car was a 100HP. Though I do almost no driving in heavy low speed traffic - thank goodness - I'm sure my 4x4 TA wouldn't be a pain in those conditions. We had a Mk 3 MJ and, unless they've completely changed the characteristics of the engine, I found it in no way better than the TA and in several respects worse. The comparison with the 100HP is less clear cut, in non 4x4 form I suspect that I'd probably prefer the 1400 16-valve to the TA.
The 85 TA in my 500 has been superb. Great engine.
OP
OP
I know someone that only use 100+ octan fuel (Shell 100 and Aral 102) in his 85 TA and he has not the TwinAir problems most people reporting.
The TA perform much better on it.
The TA perform much better on it.
babbo_umbro
Established member
I tried higher octane petrol recently when filling up in Luxembourg, as it still only costs about a pound a litre there, and found no discernible difference.
babbo_umbro
Established member
Should have said in my previous post that I don't think "most people" are reporting problems with their TA engine.
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Hi all!
Let me join the debate. I drive Panda trekking TA 85 and have done around 5k miles with it from new.
First of, the shift change indicators seem spot on to me. If you want economy, you should be changing gears at around 2k rpm, and at least my TA does it without a problem. The revs drop for about 500 rpm and there is still enough torque for a smooth ride. For a smooth start, you need to keep them at about 2,5k. It is pulling much smoother with couple thousand miles behind, I had quite a few stalls when the engine was new. The S&S came handy then for restarting with the clutch. I now have it permanently off.
I love the wide range of fifth gear on my trekking. It can be used from 50 mph.
Why I think most people have problems with MPG is cold starts. I am getting around 50 MPG doing 20 miles commute on motorway at around 70 MPH. If I use it around town only, then it drops to about 40.
I am going to wait for another couple thousand miles before making first oil change, and see what that brings. For now I am really happy with the car, but it did take some time to learn how to drive it properly. The "instant consumption" function on the dash computer was very helpful. I understand some people don't like to adapt, but for me it made the experience even more fun. I am still eager to sit behind the wheel and drive to wherever is or isn't necessary
Just one more thing. For a short car I think the ride quality with proper tyres is excellent (the original winters are pretty rough) and the car is almost silent at low revs, even on motorway.
Let me join the debate. I drive Panda trekking TA 85 and have done around 5k miles with it from new.
First of, the shift change indicators seem spot on to me. If you want economy, you should be changing gears at around 2k rpm, and at least my TA does it without a problem. The revs drop for about 500 rpm and there is still enough torque for a smooth ride. For a smooth start, you need to keep them at about 2,5k. It is pulling much smoother with couple thousand miles behind, I had quite a few stalls when the engine was new. The S&S came handy then for restarting with the clutch. I now have it permanently off.
I love the wide range of fifth gear on my trekking. It can be used from 50 mph.
Why I think most people have problems with MPG is cold starts. I am getting around 50 MPG doing 20 miles commute on motorway at around 70 MPH. If I use it around town only, then it drops to about 40.
I am going to wait for another couple thousand miles before making first oil change, and see what that brings. For now I am really happy with the car, but it did take some time to learn how to drive it properly. The "instant consumption" function on the dash computer was very helpful. I understand some people don't like to adapt, but for me it made the experience even more fun. I am still eager to sit behind the wheel and drive to wherever is or isn't necessary
Just one more thing. For a short car I think the ride quality with proper tyres is excellent (the original winters are pretty rough) and the car is almost silent at low revs, even on motorway.
TwinAir Newbie
Member
With two TA engined cars in the family there are no complaints and plenty of praise for the TA 85.
Both cars have more than enough performance for what is generally required of them and they tend not to do long journeys.
The 500 is the more eager of the two and my wife tells me that passengers do comment on the overtaking capability of it.
Both cars have more than enough performance for what is generally required of them and they tend not to do long journeys.
The 500 is the more eager of the two and my wife tells me that passengers do comment on the overtaking capability of it.
Interesting point re tyres. What do you have fitted now? I'm wondering what to fit next.Hi all!
Let me join the debate. I drive Panda trekking TA 85 and have done around 5k miles with it from new.
First of, the shift change indicators seem spot on to me. If you want economy, you should be changing gears at around 2k rpm, and at least my TA does it without a problem. The revs drop for about 500 rpm and there is still enough torque for a smooth ride. For a smooth start, you need to keep them at about 2,5k. It is pulling much smoother with couple thousand miles behind, I had quite a few stalls when the engine was new. The S&S came handy then for restarting with the clutch. I now have it permanently off.
I love the wide range of fifth gear on my trekking. It can be used from 50 mph.
Why I think most people have problems with MPG is cold starts. I am getting around 50 MPG doing 20 miles commute on motorway at around 70 MPH. If I use it around town only, then it drops to about 40.
I am going to wait for another couple thousand miles before making first oil change, and see what that brings. For now I am really happy with the car, but it did take some time to learn how to drive it properly. The "instant consumption" function on the dash computer was very helpful. I understand some people don't like to adapt, but for me it made the experience even more fun. I am still eager to sit behind the wheel and drive to wherever is or isn't necessary
Just one more thing. For a short car I think the ride quality with proper tyres is excellent (the original winters are pretty rough) and the car is almost silent at low revs, even on motorway.
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Now I'm back on stock M+S for the winter, but my summer choice was Hankook K425. As mentioned, the ride was smoother. After the switch back to winters I think I'm felling every little bump in the road, but that also means the steering is now a bit sharper. The ContiCrossContact tyres are made for bigger heavier cars, they cover only two sizes in 15" and go up to 22".
plonkers
New member
Ive done 20000 mls in my twinair 4x4 i drive very carefully the best mpg ive had is 51mpg on a decent run ,usual driving its 45-48
Took the car on its first long run (70 miles each way) after the s/w update. Ran the the car on Shell standard fuel.
Very happy with how it's running - lots of go, smooth and predictable. The engine has more power now than I've experienced before (not quite reached 8k miles) and zipped along the various M and A roads with real verve. Thus far I remain a T/A fan.
Very happy with how it's running - lots of go, smooth and predictable. The engine has more power now than I've experienced before (not quite reached 8k miles) and zipped along the various M and A roads with real verve. Thus far I remain a T/A fan.
it'll still be tight...,
get another 5K miles and an oil change done, then you should see a 10 / 15% improvement,
15K now on my Punto still averaging 49 mpg, get mid-50's if I try..,
Charlie
get another 5K miles and an oil change done, then you should see a 10 / 15% improvement,
15K now on my Punto still averaging 49 mpg, get mid-50's if I try..,
Charlie
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I've 5500 miles on my TA 4x4 and the engine is great, but it's only just coming alive.
Most of it's work is chugging around London/Kent and now and again drags a trailer in and out of muddy fields, but in the last couple of weeks I've had to make serveral mad dashes from London to Manchester, the sort of mad dashes you dread and total ignore speed cameras and mpg to get there in time (unfortunately one trip I didn't)
One thing, the reported top speed it well above what Fiat report and flat out in 6th it will reel in most Corsas, Fiestas and the likes, not punchy fast, but it will stretch it's legs and build speed without bouncing off the rev limiter if you ain't worried about mpg and driven like that, it's really bad.
It's loosened up quite well after it's bashing, zippier and freer reving, though it still hits the rev limiter in first and second too quickly, but you can't have your cake and eat it, it does need a low first when slippy.
The gearbox is now starting to feel slicker too, not as baulky between first and second, it's still there a little, but no where near as bad.
After 1500 miles in three days I can report the seat and driving postion is totally crap.
Uncomfortable just doesn't do it justice.
It's fine for scooting around on short trips, but the postion of my right leg and foot cause cramp in my calf after two hours and there is just no support under my thighs, it just doesn't feel right.
It's a shame as it's been doing what I need well, just now my needs are changing and a lot more similar trips are planned, so it's either a second car, the train (have you seen the prices) or a complete swap.
Most of it's work is chugging around London/Kent and now and again drags a trailer in and out of muddy fields, but in the last couple of weeks I've had to make serveral mad dashes from London to Manchester, the sort of mad dashes you dread and total ignore speed cameras and mpg to get there in time (unfortunately one trip I didn't)
One thing, the reported top speed it well above what Fiat report and flat out in 6th it will reel in most Corsas, Fiestas and the likes, not punchy fast, but it will stretch it's legs and build speed without bouncing off the rev limiter if you ain't worried about mpg and driven like that, it's really bad.
It's loosened up quite well after it's bashing, zippier and freer reving, though it still hits the rev limiter in first and second too quickly, but you can't have your cake and eat it, it does need a low first when slippy.
The gearbox is now starting to feel slicker too, not as baulky between first and second, it's still there a little, but no where near as bad.
After 1500 miles in three days I can report the seat and driving postion is totally crap.
Uncomfortable just doesn't do it justice.
It's fine for scooting around on short trips, but the postion of my right leg and foot cause cramp in my calf after two hours and there is just no support under my thighs, it just doesn't feel right.
It's a shame as it's been doing what I need well, just now my needs are changing and a lot more similar trips are planned, so it's either a second car, the train (have you seen the prices
) or a complete swap.
