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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #16
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

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Just out of interest, what's this little fella here? What's he do?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #17
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Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

Ok one thing none of us have mentioned check T D C. Indicated by a nic in the fly wheel which can be found at th front of the gear box with 0 " marks and also on the bottom crank pulley as the timing belt may have slipped and it could be firing at the wrong position there is 2 white marks on the belt should also line up with the marks on the pulley. Hayes here please as it's hard to describe
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Last edited by Sjvarley; 3 Weeks Ago at 20:58.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #18
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

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Just out of interest, what's this little fella here? What's he do?
That's the intake air temperature, it should not affect starting as far as I am aware.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #19
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

Ok, I'll have a squiz at tdc tomorrow... I reeeeealy don't want to do a timing belt... mark on the cover says it was done Feb '16 so should be ok but worth checking
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #20
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

It would appear that the late Panda used the crank sensor, so referring to the Cinquecento manual will give us the wiring diagrams and possibly some diagnosis. Sorry, can't do that tonight, out all day tomorrow, so might be able to look again tomorrow night.

You still need to check for sparks at the plugs, and that the pump runs when it should.
Checking the cam timing is a good shout. shouldn't be a problem, but always worth checking.

PS: I've put my Cinq Haynes manual on the desk as a reminder.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #21
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

Thanks guys for all the support, I'm just recharging the battery now until tomorrow. I'll try out the few things you have suggested, at which point I might get a mechanic to come and look at it. Because it was running fine (when it would start) I'm thinking there's something at play which I'm not clever enough to noodle out.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #22
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

Sorry for the delay, had a fraught few days.

The Haynes for the Cinquecento is not that helpful. I've scanned the wiring diagram, but it helpfully fails to show how the ignition switch tells it all to work.

I think it still comes down to checking each component and ensuring the electricity flows when it should.

If fuel is being injected, pump and injector are working, and crank sensor is sending a signal. Problem should therefore be sparks, or timing. Have you checked the cam timing?

If spark appears ok, and cam timing ok, do a compression test, might be head gasket.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #23
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

Thanks Bill, I've had a few days away from it too.. I did find one of the coil packs was bad, replaced it but still a no start.

I went down to my local garage and he suggested it could be the CPS, I've got one on order should be in next week, now to figure out how to replace it!

Fuel to throttle body is good, inlet manifold is clean, Spark is good now x4. I tried to get the timing covers off today but needed a bigger socket for the alternator tensioner. Picked up a new socket set on gumtree for 5 bones!

But I have night shifts coming up this weekend so I've got to leave it until tomorrow to check the timing.. I've read on another thread that it's pretty straightforward on these engines... non interference is a nice safety net too!

I don't think it's compression, simply because when it was running, it would idle fine, drive fine etc..

If it is a head gasket, I'd be putting some steel seal in it, failing that I'd probably have to sell it.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #24
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

Hi again, so I've ordered another CPS, starting to play the 'replace everything' game. Ive tested the old one and it is producing a voltage when I pass a spanner by it. I checked the reference voltage with the key on and it's at 2.5 volts. I was expecting a 5 volt reference, which makes me think something's up with the wiring.. it's a Bosch cps, it's not budging when I try to remove it and I don't want to wreck it if the new one is the wrong one... does anyone know the correct reference voltage?

Also the drive pulley was a bit rusty, is there a chance the corrosion could interfere with the sensor and mess up the timing?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #25
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

If your getting spark and fuel then the ecu and its sensors are working fine (at least for a start and rough run). This means that the most likely culprit will be the timing. Have you checked the timing belt is fitted correctly against its timing marks, as little as one tooth out can sometimes stop these engines running. Check the belt tension first, if this is slack it can easily jump a tooth or two.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #26
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

Hmm.. yes I think they're lined up, I pulled the cover off today.. belt seems to be in tact but there were a couple of pieces of ?old belt jammed in the crank pulley. I reckon I might change both belts anyway. Tension is fine.

The thing is it was starting, and when it did it ran absolutely fine. Now it's just not starting at all. Any thoughts on the 2.5v constant power to the sensor?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #27
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

Ah it could be from the side of the belt which has pulled the belt around a notch or two
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #28
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

If it was running fine previously, you need to look at what has happened between it running and it not. Work through everything that has been done in that time and verify that it is correct. Randomly changing parts in the hope it will fix things will only cause frustration and an empty wallet!
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #29
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

That's just it. Aside from changing the coil out the other day, all I've really been doing is fiddling around cleaning terminals and wiggling things. Anyway it'll be a while before I can get back to it but I'll post an update if/when I can get it going...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #30
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Re: Relays: Fuel pump and Injection System

Okay so here's an update for ya. I've now replaced the timing belt and drive belt because they were looking old, and cheap. And this is what I found.. stripped around the crankshaft pulley. Additionally I can't turn the cam pulley by hand. I was worried about shearing the bolt head so I chickened out after a bit of pulling. With the new belt installed it turns the cam over though.

I'm in uncharted territory here and because I'm mucking around in my own I can't watch the engine while it's turning. I'd like to see what's happening under the cam cover when it's turning. I took the camshaft out and neither it or the followers had any wear. Are the followers meant to stay stationary or pop up? I'm worried the valves could be stuck...
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