Can anyone tell me how the oil is retained in the gearbox where the drive shafts go in. Do they have a seal inside the gaiter?

mypandapop said:

Can anyone tell me how the oil is retained in the gearbox where the drive shafts go in. Do they have a seal inside the gaiter?

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Nope, the only thing retaining the gearbox oil is the gaitor

I'm assuming it has an integral seal? My gearbox has list 2 litres of oil. The gaiters don't look split. I did jack the car up the other day and the passenger side did weep a little. I just thought it was due to the angle of the shaft.

mypandapop said:

I'm assuming it has an integral seal? My gearbox has list 2 litres of oil. The gaiters don't look split. I did jack the car up the other day and the passenger side did weep a little. I just thought it was due to the angle of the shaft.

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As far as I know there is no integral seal. The only thing keeping the oil in check is the rubber of the gaitor. They tend to weep a bit of oil. dragonman will be along in a minute to bemoan the wet shaft design

Ok, I'm just worried that I will refill with oil to find it all come out again :-(

Hey there,

yes i find it odd too that the whole of the gearbox oil is held in place by the rubber CV boots. this is known as a "wet shaft" gearbox. its a design that most older fiats have sadly and only really in the mid 90's decided to change to dry shaft.

anyway. as you look at the CV boot, the larger side is fixed to the gearbox and the smaller side should be fixed to a bearing with an oil seal onto the drive shaft.
if you are getting oil dripping from this, then it seems that the oil seal has failed.
keep in mind that when the gearbox is filled to the correct level, the CV boots are completely full of oil (the whole inner void of the cv boot).

these can be replaced, though often it is more easy to buy the complete CV boot with bearing fixed in.

to replace it, you need to remove the drive shaft from the vehicle. this can be done by first undoing the 30mm drive shaft nut and cracking the wheel nuts off before the vehicle is jacked up.
then jack up the vehicle and secure it with an axle stand. take the wheel off, now with 2x 17mm or 19mm spanners undo the bottom suspension mount where it connects to the chassis (no need to split the ball joint but this is a good time to check its condition).
this with some help from turning the steering full lock away from the side you are working on will give you just enough room to be able to pull the drive shaft out of the wheel bearing. take care not to loose the little spacer that sits between the front wheel bearing and the CV cup.
stick a bowl under the CV boot you are working on to catch any oil, then pull off the CV boot from the gearbox or unbolt the 3x 10mm bolts from the flange that holds it in place (depending on what side you are working on) this may be held on with a metal clip or a Zip tie depending on which drive shaft you are working on, in which case it needs to be cut off.
now you have the drive axle out take off the tripod CV joint that normally lives inside the gearbox differential, this is held in place with a circlip. once that is removed you are now set to remove the old bearing.

this is my favourite part.. with care as you do not want to damage the drive shaft.. use a hammer and blunt chisel to "walk" the bearing off the shaft by hammering it one side then the other. the shaft is tapered so once you get it moving it will want to move more with each hit.
once the old one is removed the same method applies with installing the new new CV boot and bearing but with great care.
lightly tap the inner race only. one side then the other and walk it down the shaft until it rests near or exactly where the old bearing sat.
if you can find a bit of thick steel tubing that fits over the drive shaft, even better! you can use this to drift the new CV boot and bearing into place.
now slide the tripod CV joint back onto the end of the shaft and lock it in place with the circlip.
now when you go to install the drive shaft back into the gearbox, make sure that the flange where the CV boot sits or is fastened to is completely clean and oil free. before actually fixing the CV boot to the gearbox i recommend using some instant gasket to help it make a good seal to the gearbox.
if the boot requires a clip to hold it to the gearbox i recommend using the thick type zip ties and zipping them tight using a pair of pliers.
fix the drive shaft back into the wheel bearing, making sure the little spacer is back in place and then bolt up the bottom suspension mount.
replace wheel and take vehicle from off the axle stand. once the vehicle is on the floor replace the drive shaft nut and tighten the wheel bolts up.
dont forget to fill the gearbox with oil (correct oil specs can be found >here<).

i hope this helps!

Thanks for the write up Dragon Man! Looks like I will be doing this then as I've got to replace both lower ball joints and top mounts for the MOT. Is is pretty much the same procedure for the longer shaft on the drivers side? Does this also have the same kind of boot/bearing on it? Cheers Chris

Also where's the best place to get the boots from? Ricambio have them but is there anywhere cheaper?

i got both boots from euro car parts.. they are the same as cinquecento sporting ones. (and pretty much any 90's fiat with the 1.1L (1108cc) FIRE engine)

both boots differ. the short shaft, the boot is held to the gearbox using a zip tie or metal clip. for the long shaft, the boot is held to the gearbox by a metal plate and 3x 10mm bolts

if you have many long reach extensions for your socket set you can cheat like how i did it the second time on project fallout. haha:

mypandapop said:

Also where's the best place to get the boots from? Ricambio have them but is there anywhere cheaper?

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Try them,
Had pair fitted to Black panda 4 years ago, just start to weep.
http://www.eurocarcare.net/drivetrain/ecc71738383-drive-shaft-inner-bearing-seal-unit.html

Boots sold separatelly, both listed at the bottom of the page.

Not much cheaper than Franco, that what they cost i'm afraid.

Please note that CORRECT instalation is a KEY to have them last long. Hammer and chisel is deffinately no go. Please refer to blue haynes manual for applicator tool details.

Thanks for all the replies, have ordered the kit for both sides so will replace them when I do the ball joints and top mounts.

Well I have both kits and am going to attempt to fit them today. The kits come grease, is this needed as I thought they were lubricated with the gearbox oil?

Never done them on a panda, but I'd imagine the inners would as you say be lubricated by the gearbox and outers would need the grease

you dont need to use the grease.. i am not sure why they give it you to be fair.
i kept mine for the outer CV boots

Well they are all fitted, a mechanic friend said it might be sealant grease so I just put a bit round the outer of the bearing before I fitted the boot. I know need new shocks as it wasn't the top mounts!

it may be more easy to get the old ones reconditioned.. is it a 2 wheel drive or a 4 wheel drive?

the 4 wheel drive has shocks that are 2cm longer than the 4 wheel drive..
however fitting 2 wheel drive shocks to a 4 wheel drive does not cause any issues.

Well I managed to get a pair for £40 from a motor factors on eBay. I've used them before for a rear caliper on my TT and they are pretty good on price.