I have thought time and time again when stopping at petrol stations, I wonder what that 98 stuff is like, then I turn and look at Char' with her 22 year old 769cc engine, and grab the 95 pump instead...

I know using a premium fuel would get me no extra power, a carburettor will use any fuel you put in the exact same way and theres no ECU to advance the timing to make use of the higher RON fuel. But what about the cleaning additives?
Could putting premium fuel through the engine every once in a while aid in keeping the innards clean? Having never used a premium fuel I literally have no idea, I do tend to stick to proper brands like Shell and BP over supermarkets for no real obvious reason...

i have never used premium fuel in talon :/ though i do tend to find fuel from different garages works better.

our local is an esso garage.. but we also have a supermarket close by.

it would be interesting to see the results on a rolling road performance test.

even carbs though would act differently on premium fuels.. ecu would just read oxygen in the exhaust and inject more or less fuel to compensate. my guess is that with a higher burn fuel, it would use less of it to get the same bang the ECU thinks it needs in the cylinder. it could use less fuel, but at the same time it does cost more.. maybe it would break even?

all guess work though..

Just guesswork but I use Redex Injector cleaner about 3 times a year and it works great for me.

I've done some miles on 97 and V power as well. 97 purely by mistake, Vpower just to see is ther any difference. Both refuelings were made from level < 1litre up to full tank. 0 to 30mph - noticyble improvement, less choke and for a bit shorter period of time needed when started from cold. MPG improvement- not much as i was reving the engine harder. Half of carburettor cleaner spray is doing much better job in terms of clean out.

I ONLY use Shell V-Power in my cars and classic bikes.
V-Power contains ( almost) no ethanol, like all other fuels, even if it says not so...
Ethanol is very aggressive to older fuel hoses and gaskets, to make things worse, it will attract moisture in fuel tanks, causing all kinds of troubles..
In our 1,6-16V Fiat we use V-Power since we own the car ( 2003) and after about 140.000mls, it runs like new.


(I even use V-Power Diesel fuel in my Alfa GT jtd...)

I run the Sisley on super unleaded, as according to the Haynes manual the early 999cc engines were designed to run on 98 RON Unleaded or Leaded petrol. 95 RON can be used, but it says sudden accelaration and continuous high speed should be avoided because of the risk of pinking.

To be honest I have used normal unleaded a few times and not noticed any pinking, so probably not really necessary, but since the majority of the driving the car is doing now seems to be motorway going to and from shows I like to play it safe and use super unleaded. The cost is not really an issue as I do very little miles, plus its still cheaper than running my Land Rover

panda1408 said:

I run the Sisley on super unleaded, as according to the Haynes manual the early 999cc engines were designed to run on 98 RON Unleaded or Leaded petrol. 95 RON can be used, but it says sudden accelaration and continuous high speed should be avoided because of the risk of pinking.

To be honest I have used normal unleaded a few times and not noticed any pinking, so probably not really necessary, but since the majority of the driving the car is doing now seems to be motorway going to and from shows I like to play it safe and use super unleaded. The cost is not really an issue as I do very little miles, plus its still cheaper than running my Land Rover

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I can certainly confirm that the Sisley will not pink on normal unleaded - it will still do 85 even with 130k on the clock.

Despite what the Haynes manual says, the FIRE engine was specifically designed for unleaded. I have a chart somewhere from Fiat - the 903cc was also ok for unleaded by the way, but in theory you avoid long periods flat out (not that it makes any difference).

The Haynes manual doesn't say anything about having to use leaded petrol in the Fire engine, just that the earlier 999cc engines need to use 98 RON unleaded to stop pinking. It will not affect your Sisley Gavin as it is a later one, pretty sure it is only up to 1988ish. The Haynes manual gives chassis numbers if you want to check.

I didn't realise I could run the Mk1 on unleaded though, I've been using lead additive as I just presumed it needed it, won't bother from now on then

panda1408 said:

The Haynes manual doesn't say anything about having to use leaded petrol in the Fire engine, just that the earlier 999cc engines need to use 98 RON unleaded to stop pinking. It will not affect your Sisley Gavin as it is a later one, pretty sure it is only up to 1988ish. The Haynes manual gives chassis numbers if you want to check.

I didn't realise I could run the Mk1 on unleaded though, I've been using lead additive as I just presumed it needed it, won't bother from now on then

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Yes all the FIRE engines should be ok on 95 though. scout 's early 1986 1000CL definitely doesn't pink even at full bore! Haynes were probably playing ultra safe.

The 903's can pink on 95ron (one of three of mine does), but I think you retard the ignition or something to cure it? They are pretty tough old things though, and can certainly cope fine with unleaded.

Lead or no lead is not the problem with today's fuel, nor is the octane rating...
The ethanol content will ruin any engine, (and fuel lines, gastanks etc.) not designed to run on it in time...
All non premium fuels contain up to 8% ethanol, no matter what brand.
It doesn't have to say anything on the pump...
When a fuel contains 10% ( 15%, 85%) ethanol, it should be labeled E10...( E15, E85)
ONLY premium fuels are ( almost) ethanol free ( still....)

Palio said:

Yes all the FIRE engines should be ok on 95 though. scout 's early 1986 1000CL definitely doesn't pink even at full bore! Haynes were probably playing ultra safe.

The 903's can pink on 95ron (one of three of mine does), but I think you retard the ignition or something to cure it? They are pretty tough old things though, and can certainly cope fine with unleaded.

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Sounds like I should stick with the normal unleaded for both then Will give it a go.

Thanks everyone for your insight, I guess I'll try some next time I fill up and make my own conclusion...

Think we went slightly off topic there, still talking about petrol though I don't think you'll notice much difference really, but can't harm to try it once

I only put BP Ultimate in Serge. Just feels like I'm being kinder to him

Tried it in Betty. Couldn't really feel any real difference; whereas in the Punto, it (Shell's V-power-whatever-it's-called-nowadays only; nowt else...) gives me better economy (in lesser pence per mile; not just greater miles per gallon); and feels -- subjectively -- smoother. (I only put it in Betty out of (accidental) habit.... Oops.)

Not so sure this adds anything, really. I know purple haze used to put Super in everything, though....

I only use Shell or BP normal fuel in anything fuel injected, the 750L's get the cheapest on the market as I can't notice the difference running the carb'ed setup on them like I can a fuel injected car.

Can always tell where dad's filled up his MK3 based upon how it idles normally.

I just use the cheap fuel, though interesting point about the ethanol in the lower octane blends. One thing to watch with the premium fuel is where you buy it from. My mate used to have a BMW M5 and filled it up at a remote highland filling station. His car ran like hell until he started diluting with new fuel. He assumes retrospectively that no-one ever bought the stuff and it must have been sitting in the forecourt's tanks for along time.

I never tried the BP 102 octane stuff that was for sale for a while, but I did almost have a heart attack when I pulled up at the pump and saw it for sale at around £2.50/l and that was a few years ago.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

I only use Shell or BP normal fuel in anything fuel injected, the 750L's get the cheapest on the market as I can't notice the difference running the carb'ed setup on them like I can a fuel injected car.

Can always tell where dad's filled up his MK3 based upon how it idles normally.

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I must admit I've never found any noticeable difference so they all get normal unleaded. Once in a blue moon I'll give a 127 super unleaded for a treat, but I'm not convinced it makes a significant difference.

The only cars which were different on Optimax (see how long ago it was) were the mk1 Punto Sporting and the Coupe. Both went like a rocket on the first tank, then the ECU adjusted for the next tank & you lost the benefit - still it was good once in a while!!

I genuinely haven't ever seen a difference with the mk2 Panda's - I also record the mpg on every tankful (just an old habit & I always brim the tank), so I'd notice if anything changed significantly.

I'd say to anyone try the expensive if you want, but if you don't notice a difference just stick to the regular unleaded & save yourself a few £.

Palio said:

I must admit I've never found any noticeable difference so they all get normal unleaded. Once in a blue moon I'll give a 127 super unleaded for a treat, but I'm not convinced it makes a significant difference.

The only cars which were different on Optimax (see how long ago it was) were the mk1 Punto Sporting and the Coupe. Both went like a rocket on the first tank, then the ECU adjusted for the next tank & you lost the benefit - still it was good once in a while!!

I genuinely haven't ever seen a difference with the mk2 Panda's - I also record the mpg on every tankful (just an old habit & I always brim the tank), so I'd notice if anything changed significantly.

I'd say to anyone try the expensive if you want, but if you don't notice a difference just stick to the regular unleaded & save yourself a few £.

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Totally agree.

Palio said:

The only cars which were different on Optimax (see how long ago it was) were the mk1 Punto Sporting and the Coupe. Both went like a rocket on the first tank, then the ECU adjusted for the next tank & you lost the benefit - still it was good once in a while!!

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I actually find that very interesting... :nutter:



...as on the Punto, it takes several starts, and several tankfuls, for the benefit to (apparently) 'work its way through'... -- although I presume the ECU must be altering all its various doodads (complex technical term) immediately: as it adjusts on the fly.... :idea:

I think I've now convinced myself that I'm stupid (as well as showing my age...): as I don't understand why it would take so long -- especially as I always fill to the brim, and usually with less than a quarter of a tankful left: so the proportion of super to normal unleaded must be pretty significant from day one....

Bottom line is that it's cheaper per mile: so that's all that matters.

Would be interested to know what it's like in the later injected Pandas. Must give it a try in Hal, once I resurrect him.