What could go in panda 4x4 if looking for small/mid size disel engine?
Terra Van with VW lump? Does any of the Punto mk1 use "fire bolt pattern" gearbox?
Terra Van with VW lump? Does any of the Punto mk1 use "fire bolt pattern" gearbox?
Technical Panda 4x4 engine upgrades
- Thread starter Dragon Man
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Technical Panda 4x4 engine upgrades
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as i have been told, any fire engine (8v or 16v) and fire gearbox will /can be combined and fit.
i do not know of any diesel engine that will fit the 4x4 gearbox. it is a question i have asked before. i would like to know this also!
i do not know of any diesel engine that will fit the 4x4 gearbox. it is a question i have asked before. i would like to know this also!
Uno 1.7D gerabox seems to have different bell housing compared with panda fire.
1.7D - starter motor at the front
But Uno 1.3D 89-95 looks more like "fire"
Fitment still TBC...
1.7D - starter motor at the front
But Uno 1.3D 89-95 looks more like "fire"
Fitment still TBC...
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if you wanted a diesel multijet engine in a classic panda i would go the whole hog and swap out the running gear from a new panda cross or whatever the 4x4 modern panda is called.
If i was you i would be going for the 1242 8v mpi (P75) engine but they are not the easiest things to find now - as most puntos sold were 55 or 60 ones with spi engines.
Regarding fuel economy i can tell you categorically that you will get more miles per tank with the 8v. My cinq is now 1242 16v (all mk1 punto parts) and used to be 1242 8v spi (P60) engine and it easily did 100 os so more miles per tank in 8v trim.
And as i said somewhere else - i would be very very interesting in the 999 engine that you would have spare if you go ahead with the swap
If i was you i would be going for the 1242 8v mpi (P75) engine but they are not the easiest things to find now - as most puntos sold were 55 or 60 ones with spi engines.
Regarding fuel economy i can tell you categorically that you will get more miles per tank with the 8v. My cinq is now 1242 16v (all mk1 punto parts) and used to be 1242 8v spi (P60) engine and it easily did 100 os so more miles per tank in 8v trim.
And as i said somewhere else - i would be very very interesting in the 999 engine that you would have spare if you go ahead with the swap
Sits and waits for "16v it"
OP
OP
And as i said somewhere else - i would be very very interesting in the 999 engine that you would have spare if you go ahead with the swap
i have the spare engine from Bex.. that had loads of work done to it before i got it.
if you are interested in it.
its sat in my shed at the moment.
i was just about to stick it in the classifieds lmao
I'll PM you fella
Hmmm looks an interesting thread, how "hens teeth" like are the punto 75 engines or is it more trying to find an injection tank off a panda?. I wouldn't go back to carb keep it simple and modern with some mpi.
Waits for "carbs are much simpler".
Waits for "carbs are much simpler".
OP
OP
eheh carbs may be more simpler but they are not so quite.. precise.
i think i have gotten around the fuel tank issue, i made a swirl pot and stuck a punto 75 fuel pump in it.
looks good too
that will be constantly topped up using a low pressure fuel pump that does not mind sucking air if all the fuel drops back to the tank, or you run out of fuel.
should work well
i think i have gotten around the fuel tank issue, i made a swirl pot and stuck a punto 75 fuel pump in it.
looks good too
that will be constantly topped up using a low pressure fuel pump that does not mind sucking air if all the fuel drops back to the tank, or you run out of fuel.
should work well
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If you are a sporty driver, wouldn't the P75/P85 mess up the original gearbox and rear diff?
I heard spme stories that the couldn't handle over 60 HP, so what kind of box do you need aiming for power and remaining 4WD..
I heard spme stories that the couldn't handle over 60 HP, so what kind of box do you need aiming for power and remaining 4WD..
it won't be power that kills it - too higher revs would kill it and too much torque, pretty sure the torque won't be an issue myself, not like its a huge amount more really. Trying to do doughnuts in a field bouncing off the limiter will kill the 4wd bits pretty quicklybut i'm sure johns is not that silly
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Haha so a p85 on a stock 4x4 box would actualy hold..
So a quick launch at the lichts (no serious racing) wouldn't kill it..
I'm new to the 4x4 and sadly don't own one yet.. But I'm planning to build one
So a quick launch at the lichts (no serious racing) wouldn't kill it..
I'm new to the 4x4 and sadly don't own one yet.. But I'm planning to build one
i dunno to be honest but what i am saying is i don't see dragonman doing hard launches from the lights... And ultimately if thats your thing why would you get a low geared 4x4 car.. a normal 2wd panda would be much more suited to some thrashing about the place on the road.
the 2 engines, P75 and panda 4x4 in stock trim though are only 19lb.ft different in terms of torque.
The P85 engine is not really an engine i would consider remotely sensible, it has very little torque low down and doesn't really work well at all other than when revved hard, which it the opposite of what you want on a off road car and what the 4wd system is designed to take. The P75 is the obvious choice as its 8v and thus has grunty low end and the expense of being a tad breathless when revved really hard - perfect for the application.
the 2 engines, P75 and panda 4x4 in stock trim though are only 19lb.ft different in terms of torque.
The P85 engine is not really an engine i would consider remotely sensible, it has very little torque low down and doesn't really work well at all other than when revved hard, which it the opposite of what you want on a off road car and what the 4wd system is designed to take. The P75 is the obvious choice as its 8v and thus has grunty low end and the expense of being a tad breathless when revved really hard - perfect for the application.
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OP
hmm agreed. you can get a 1.1, a 1.2, and a 1.4 engine in 8v
i went with the 1.2 because it had better fuel economy over the 1.4 engine.
i intend to drive the car as economically as i can. fuel injection with auto fuel cut out will help a lot. and so i have been told, the punto 75 engine supports this.
the thing that would kill the gearbox is hard acceleration, "power shifting", racing it, and just general abuse like that.
this car was never designed to be a race car. so basically, don't drive it like one and it will last a long time.
even the punto 75 was never designed to be raced. it was more for higher road speed use, say if you had to travel on a high speed road way often.
if you are looking for a car you can use for fast take offs and quick acceleration i don't think the panda is the car for you :/
put it this way, i am in 5th gear travelling at 30mph (50km/h). you spend so much time shifting gears in the 4x4 panda you would not really get anywhere if in a race. i can only guess that this would be worse with the 1.2 engine as you would have to shift quicker through the gears, making it more easy to make a mistake and miss a gear wish can be fatal for a gearbox.
my advice would be to go for a road going 4x4. one that is not meant for off road usage.
if you get a panda though, we will help you best we can with any questions you have.
i went with the 1.2 because it had better fuel economy over the 1.4 engine.
i intend to drive the car as economically as i can. fuel injection with auto fuel cut out will help a lot. and so i have been told, the punto 75 engine supports this.
the thing that would kill the gearbox is hard acceleration, "power shifting", racing it, and just general abuse like that.
this car was never designed to be a race car. so basically, don't drive it like one and it will last a long time.
even the punto 75 was never designed to be raced. it was more for higher road speed use, say if you had to travel on a high speed road way often.
if you are looking for a car you can use for fast take offs and quick acceleration i don't think the panda is the car for you :/
put it this way, i am in 5th gear travelling at 30mph (50km/h). you spend so much time shifting gears in the 4x4 panda you would not really get anywhere if in a race. i can only guess that this would be worse with the 1.2 engine as you would have to shift quicker through the gears, making it more easy to make a mistake and miss a gear wish can be fatal for a gearbox.
my advice would be to go for a road going 4x4. one that is not meant for off road usage.
if you get a panda though, we will help you best we can with any questions you have.
Having ran various FIRE lumps, if i was slapping one in a Panda 4x4, i'd personally have been going Mk1 P60, so SPI, all day long. Tried, tested, torquey enough to take whatever you want to throw at it and it'll do a decent job. Fuel economy is very solid, easily tuneable etc.
P75 equally good and probably the better choice overall but i just prefer the simplicity of SPI, in a way it suits the more rugged character of the car, even though the mpi of the p75 is still relatively primative.
P75 equally good and probably the better choice overall but i just prefer the simplicity of SPI, in a way it suits the more rugged character of the car, even though the mpi of the p75 is still relatively primative.
tbh the 75 and 60 are pretty much the same bar the mpi, and the mpi is batch fire as well - you can just take p60 and splice the wires for injector 4 ways and you have a p75 loom basically. i suppose there is a couple more bits to go wrong ultimately but its still a very simple engine - just better head, cam and fuel distribution really (there is a few more differences but nothing major, oil squirters for example but i have found that not all of them have them anyway). Just a shame the p75 was never the huge seller the 55 & 60 were cause bits are getting hard to get nowadays.
OP
OP
just got hold of an 866 cam from the scrap yard.. it came off a punto 75 with a 1.2 SPI fuel system. it has 866 stamped on it so i guess its all good.
now, would there be any improvement by swapping the standard 4x4 cam over to the 866 cam on the 999cc fire engine?
i know i will loose my mechanical fuel pump but i can just nab the electric one from off Fallout for now.
what's your thoughts.
now, would there be any improvement by swapping the standard 4x4 cam over to the 866 cam on the 999cc fire engine?
i know i will loose my mechanical fuel pump but i can just nab the electric one from off Fallout for now.
what's your thoughts.
Don't think there's any benifit. I thought the 4x4 and the 866 cam were the same :S may be worth measuring the lobes to see.
no thats not right, panda 4x4 is same as seicento mpi as far as i know, and the 866 is an upgrade for the sei mpi.
not sure on the 4x4 specs but the 75 is (just wrote down on another thread randomly)
Inlet: 7°-41°
Exhaust: 43°-5°
Lift: 10.5 (not 100% on this one, i know its 10.something)
not sure on the 4x4 specs but the 75 is (just wrote down on another thread randomly)
Inlet: 7°-41°
Exhaust: 43°-5°
Lift: 10.5 (not 100% on this one, i know its 10.something)
4x4 cam is only 8mm lift, same as the 1108, although the duration is longer than the 1108 cam, but 866 should be a decent upgrade still with the big increase in lift.
