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Panda (Classic) Engelbert the H reg Dark Green Sisley Progress Log

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Introduction

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-cla...ng-h-reg-sisley-needs-home-5.html#post3514984

So today I took delivery of the above mentioned Sisley, who I have decided to name Engelbert after the last 3 letters of his numberplate (I always name my cars in this way). All is explained as to how he came to be in my possession from the above thread so I wont touch on that too much here but will say the seller is a very kind lady. She was understanding about the transport frustrations I had and was very honest about the condition of the car.

This first post is going to be very pic heavy by the way!! I got it and did a quick assessment (I will do a more in depth assessment tomorrow) but I am extremely pleased with the condition generally, it obviously will need work but I am prepared for this (hence the project log). It has every sisley extra apart from the grille badge and is missing two centrecaps and the horn push (I am not counting the compass in this), though I wasnt expecting there to be as much of the sisley trim etc as there is! I am in the process of compiling a list of required items too.

Required Items/work required

Side repeater indicator
Front part of Airbox assembly (or new clips)
two sisley centrecaps
Front grille sisley badge
Instrument surround (See photo)
possibly bonnet vent (there is a small crack in this but I actually dont think it matters too much)
Possibly new bonnet or just work to the bonnet
Rubber headlamp rear cover
Rubber boot seal
Refurbish wheels and new tyres
Sisley Horn Push
New Battery
Aerial
Wiring repairs (wiring next to battery at least)
Repair front seat fabric
Under bonnet screwdriver
wirebrushing and undersealing, possible welding at points
Front bullbars
rear bullbars Palio I havent forgotten about this, but will wait till funds are more available if thats cool?
Obviously a stripdown and recommissioning generally of the engine is required as it hasnt run in 4-5 years


The general condition is pretty good indeed, though some rust curing and prevention will obviously have to be done. But I gave it a quick clean and it has come up very nicely, I am struggling for things to say about it as I have so much swimming in my head at the moment with it, im overwhelmed, need to sleep to digest it all! I will let the pictures and videos do the talking (still need to upload videos)
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Reactions: Giacosa, pandamonius_maximus, kolza and 3 others
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there is a spade connector on the back of the starter this sometimes gets a bit corroded and stops making a connection.

applying +12v to this spade connector with make the starter engage and turn the engine over. get a friend to hold the key in the start position and take a reading using a volt meter (or a bulb on 2 bits of wire, with one wire on an earth and one in the incoming (to starter) not so thick red wire with female spade connector) if you get 12v reading then it is giving the starter 12v to engage the starter.

i have never heard of a panda starter motor locking up, but i guess you could get a jack/broom handle and give the solenoid a good few taps with a knocking stick. may free it up.


wiring wise, its pretty simple, from battery, to back of alternator's main connection, to ignition switch, then to starter. it does not go through any fuses. you can follow the wire though.. just keep following the not so thick (but thick ish) red wire into the car from the alternator.

you should not need to do that though. my money is on that spade connector not connecting.
 
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Dragon Man said:
there is a spade connector on the back of the starter this sometimes gets a bit corroded and stops making a connection.

applying +12v to this spade connector with make the starter engage and turn the engine over. get a friend to hold the key in the start position and take a reading using a volt meter (or a bulb on 2 bits of wire, with one wire on an earth and one in the incoming (to starter) not so thick red wire with female spade connector) if you get 12v reading then it is giving the starter 12v to engage the starter.

i have never heard of a panda starter motor locking up, but i guess you could get a jack/broom handle and give the solenoid a good few taps with a knocking stick. may free it up.


wiring wise, its pretty simple, from battery, to back of alternator's main connection, to ignition switch, then to starter. it does not go through any fuses. you can follow the wire though.. just keep following the not so thick (but thick ish) red wire into the car from the alternator.

you should not need to do that though. my money is on that spade connector not connecting.
Click to expand...

Thanks man, I am loving how much stuff I have to try today, progress of some sort will be made :)
 
So I put the car in fourth, jacked it up at the front drivers side and turned the wheel, it came relatively easily (would have been easier had I thought to remove the spark plugs so I wasn't fighting compression) but it span round, I put it through two rotations of the cambelt.

This feels like a MASSIVE leap forward to me (haven't tried doing anything with the starter yet) and I am super pleased :) thanks for the advice everyone so far, couldnt do this without you all, feels good to have the knowledge, experience and encouragement of the forum behind me :)
 
So I just got the windscreen washers working :) there were some loose connections on the passenger side bottle.

Does anyone who has the headlamp washers know if its normal for it to only give a little blast to the headlamps if you hold the windscreen one continuously? It works again if you re pull the lever?
 
So put a multimeter on the starter motor (the female spade connector part) and there is no reading when the key is turned in the ignition) hmm, need to go back to the drawing board.

EDIT

Just reading back through previous posts and it was mentioned that the key was to be held at the start position, I think my wife just flicked it to start, so it might be possible that I didn't catch the reading.

Got a bit more work to do on this particular part of proceedings, it was all going so well too :/
 
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if you have no power going to the female space connector when the key is turned to the "start" position, you could find a replacement ignition switch as i guess that would be to fault.. you could also wire in a "push to start" button... nothing like a bit of style.

i'd just keep back tracking the wires till you eventually get to a good 12v reading.
the only thing back from the starter is the ignition switch.
 
Dragon Man said:
if you have no power going to the female space connector when the key is turned to the "start" position, you could find a replacement ignition switch as i guess that would be to fault.. you could also wire in a "push to start" button... nothing like a bit of style.

i'd just keep back tracking the wires till you eventually get to a good 12v reading.
the only thing back from the starter is the ignition switch.
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Thanks for the info John, its been very helpful so far :)

I was feeling kind of rubbish last night as I felt that I hadn't done enough this weekend, but looking back I am making progress, but having the engine running would make me a lot happier, but I'm sure I can do it with all the help I have been getting so far! Sorry if I seem a bit thick at times :ROFLMAO:
 
Ok so hopefully someone will read this and be able to tell me what is going on! I'm looking at you Dragon Man :ROFLMAO:

I was using the bulb on a wire, its the one which has a crocodile clip you connect to an earth and a probe you use to test the connection. So I had my wife turning the key in the car while I was touching the top female spade connector (the first one you see looking down into the engine bay) and the bulb was lighting on and off sporadically. I then started touching the bottom connector and suddenly the starter started cranking the engine (giving me quite the fright). Tried cranking a few more times but it wouldn't turn over. I then connected up the airboxes again to see if that might be causing it not to turn over. My wife then tried it again and it was cranking but not firing over. I then realised that I would have to operate the choke, being that my wife isn't familiar with the operation of the choke I swapped places with her, tried turning the engine and nothing happened :( not sure whether my operating the choke had something to do with this.

So I went back out to the engine bay, the bulb was still lighting up on the stick but it was at this point I noticed that the bulb was lighting whether the key was turned all the way round or not, and I wasn't able to make the starter start again :( I did notice that both connections look slightly corroded, and it was when I was touching the lower one when the starter suddenly started the first time.

So what does all this mean?
 
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The lower (big) one will be live permanently as this is the main feed for the starter straight from the battery.

I would remove the connections from the starter and clean them up, must be a feed there as you have had it turning so a good clean up should get things working again. You will need to spin the engine over for quite a while to get the fuel up from the tank, perhaps do as Kolza said and pour some petrol into the carb, if it fires when you do that then you are getting somewhere.
 
panda1408 said:
The lower (big) one will be live permanently as this is the main feed for the starter straight from the battery.

I would remove the connections from the starter and clean them up, must be a feed there as you have had it turning so a good clean up should get things working again. You will need to spin the engine over for quite a while to get the fuel up from the tank, perhaps do as Kolza said and pour some petrol into the carb, if it fires when you do that then you are getting somewhere.
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Thanks for the advice man, I'm going through it in my head, here's my theory:

1-The starter can't be stuck as it has been moving.

2-the wires to the starter can't be the problem as I had the bulb lighting when I touched the spade connector

3-so removing and cleaning the connectors should help in case the inner side isn't making a clean connection

Does all that sound correct?
 
It still sounds like sticking starter solenoid to me.
Inner solenoid tube must be dry or rusted, should work out after couple times but dismantling, cleaning and lubricating will improove.

Ask wife to hold ignition in start posision if still noting happens - try to give single knock to solenoind casing ( small barrel on the top of the starter motor).
If this helps, solenoid oherhaul required.

You're getting there mate.
 
maybe the big connector has a "dry" connection.. it can sometimes happen in the crimped eye connector. try tigitening them up on the back of the starter, but remove the earth lead first.. then give it a crank. if not remove it and inspect the wires.

remember copper slip is your friend with old electronics. it could also be the earth lead going to the engine.. try a jump lead going from the engine case to the negative terminal on the battery..
 
kolza said:
It still sounds like sticking starter solenoid to me.
Inner solenoid tube must be dry or rusted, should work out after couple times but dismantling, cleaning and lubricating will improove.

Ask wife to hold ignition in start posision if still noting happens - try to give single knock to solenoind casing ( small barrel on the top of the starter motor).
If this helps, solenoid oherhaul required.

You're getting there mate.
Click to expand...







Dragon Man said:
maybe the big connector has a "dry" connection.. it can sometimes happen in the crimped eye connector. try tigitening them up on the back of the starter, but remove the earth lead first.. then give it a crank. if not remove it and inspect the wires.

remember copper slip is your friend with old electronics. it could also be the earth lead going to the engine.. try a jump lead going from the engine case to the negative terminal on the battery..
Click to expand...

Thanks boys, I do seem to be making progress slowly but surely.

Just hope the starter isn't broken after that today, though I think that's fairly unlikely?
 
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