Technical Panda Overheating

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Technical Panda Overheating

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Aug 9, 2010
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Lewisham
Hi,
I have a 1992 CLX which is overheating.
After 10 - 15 minutes from cold, the temperature gauge is hitting the red zone, and coolant is seeping from the reservoir filler cap (which is on as tight as it will go)
I expect the car to get hot in traffic but has always cooled down when back on the move. Now the temp gauge keeps climbing towards the red zone, even when moving. Putting the car heater and interior fan on max to draw heat off the engine has no noticeable effect.
The radiator fan does kick in eventually.
The hoses into the the radiator at the top and at the bottom are hot. Does this mean the thermostat is working and so by a process of elimination the water pump is the issue? (I drained the system 2 years ago and found no gunk then so think it unlikely that there is a blockage, although willing to be corrected)
What should be my next steps?
As always, any help very gratefully received.
Thanks
 
As a temorary measure it might be a good idea to take out the thermostat (you can test it - check out my guide, but I'd leave it out. You'll need to unclip it from the housing if you've not got a spare housing) This will give you a buffer zone to get a new stat and I'd check the water pump at the same time.
It was the water pump that caused all my problems with Lucy some years back. If it has plastic vanes - discard it and fit a metal vaned type. The plastic ones appear to be all right when cold, but with age the vanes can slip on the shaft when hot. I discovered this only by working quickly while the engine was hot - sure enough I could turn the vanes and that was after the time it took to remove the timing belt cover and gain acces to the pump.
It's an easy job - just put a new one on Lucy- and could poss do a guide if needed as I took some pics. But its quite a straightforward task.
Remove timing cover, align all timing marks inc flywheel TDC, (see timing belt guide) slacken cam tensioner, slip off belt (good time to renew both?) and there's good access working from above to the 3 bolts and one nut on a stud.
If you can do it warm run the engine again before removing belt this will allow you to test it hot as I did. It took some force as it had cooled down quite a bit but I could twist the vanes holding the drive pulley (n)
ps don't drain coolant - undo pump bolts and let it drain via pump housing as this will ensure pump comes off as hot as poss - you'll need a cloth to hold it with, but the hotter the better for this test!
cheers and good luck,
lwm
 
mine's now had new rad, new pump and new thermostat - still running a bit too warm for my liking though - gauge needle sitting a bit higher than I'd like...
I think the Panda stat is not the best item to get as an aftermarket item - better to stick with genuine Fiat/Lancia as that rubber seal is the 1st bit too go and I think the after mkt ones are not as accurate on temp setting maybe..?
Good job the colder weather is on it's way!
 
mine's now had new rad, new pump and new thermostat - still running a bit too warm for my liking though - gauge needle sitting a bit higher than I'd like...

Take into account that your temperature gauge isn't probably very accurate, mine reads at least 5 degrees more than what the engine temp actually is, so if its only slightly over 90 (mine creeps up to an indicated 96 ish when sitting in traffic) its probably fine the gauge is just a bit crooked (y)
 
Take into account that your temperature gauge isn't probably very accurate, mine reads at least 5 degrees more than what the engine temp actually is, so if its only slightly over 90 (mine creeps up to an indicated 96 ish when sitting in traffic) its probably fine the gauge is just a bit crooked (y)

Leaking coolent bubbling out..... I love that your getting involved with solving probs, but the gauge is the least of his probs.

Don't let me put you off having a go Didge....(y)

Water will still move around a system, albeit very very slowly, with a broken pump. No mayo in the oil I take it??

It's good to change std blue coolent every year. Was a reverse flush used when you cleaned the system out??....alot can happen in two years.
 
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Water will still move around a system, albeit very very slowly, with a broken pump...

With a broken or inefficient 'pump' the cooling system relies on 'thermo-syphon' (less dense hotter water rises and cooler more dense sinks)
With a radiator the system becomes more effective as the vehicle is moving as air flow through the radiator improves cooling, thus in turn improving the coolant flow around the engine.
However when the car is moving slowly - slow traffic or uphill or worse standing in a traffic jam - the thermosyphon action becomes insufficient and engine temperature rises significantly.
Electric cooling fans prevent overheating, automatically switching on as engine temperature rises.
Basically you can 'get away' with a faulty water pump and not even realise it's faulty, but in the case of the plastic vaned pumps the problem can only get worse over time. Best to check it out first. I had to learn the hard way!
 
you know.. i did a video on this.. just remembered.


i show you the 3 types of water pump you can get. with one being the useless plastic pump

yeah the really old 1920's cars relied on convection current instead of a water pump.

mind you, back in those days there were no traffic jams!
 
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No mayo in the oil
I will order a new water pump and thermostat and steel myself for next Saturday when I will replace both.
I was wondering if this probable pump problem could be connected with the high pitched whining noise in 1st, 2nd and 3rd that I did post about but grew accustomed to?
When I take the cover off the timing belt, is there anything else I should be looking to check or replace at the same time?
 
No mayo in the oil
I will order a new water pump and thermostat and steel myself for next Saturday when I will replace both.
I was wondering if this probable pump problem could be connected with the high pitched whining noise in 1st, 2nd and 3rd that I did post about but grew accustomed to?
When I take the cover off the timing belt, is there anything else I should be looking to check or replace at the same time?

Not under the cover but you could check on the state of the metal pipe that feeds into the pump as they have a habit of corroding. If yous is nearly gone a shiny new one could be nice.
 
Thanks for all your advice so far. New pump ordered.
However ... This evening I ran the car upto working temperature again to double check my description of the problem and whilst the bottom hoses were hot ( almost too hot to hold), the top hose, from the thermostat to the radiator, was markedly cooler - like only warm from being near a warm engine. The bottom of the radiator felt much hotter than the top. ( I can't have been concentrating this first time)
Having looked at the haynes manual diagrams, I think maybe the thermostat should be the first thing I replace as it looks like the coolant is flowing around the engine and heater matrix but not the radiator (to get cooled)
Am I on the right track? Apologies for the duff initial info.
Thanks
 
I replaced the thermostat and took a test drive. The car started to overheat again
Then I replaced the pump and used the garden hose to flush the hoses. Success! The temperature gauge does not get above the mark above 90 without the radiator fan kicking in.

The pump I replaced looked fine and did not look worn and turned OK, so I am not sure whether it was the flushing or the new pump that fixed the problem.

I tensioned the timing belt so I can just twist it 90 degrees (Haynes manual advice) This seems to have introduced a slight squeal at low revs (not tick over) in the timing belt area. Dragon Man's video seemed to show the timing belt a little looser. I would be grateful for advice on this.

Is there a trick to replacing the timing belt cover? I'd like to believe I am not the only person to have struggled for 20 minutes and then give up with grazed knuckles.

Also, how much coolant should be in the bottle when the engine is cold and warm?

Thanks
 
The pump I replaced looked fine and did not look worn and turned OK, so I am not sure whether it was the flushing or the new pump that fixed the problem.

I tensioned the timing belt so I can just twist it 90 degrees (Haynes manual advice) This seems to have introduced a slight squeal at low revs (not tick over) in the timing belt area. Dragon Man's video seemed to show the timing belt a little looser. I would be grateful for advice on this.

Is there a trick to replacing the timing belt cover? I'd like to believe I am not the only person to have struggled for 20 minutes and then give up with grazed knuckles.

Also, how much coolant should be in the bottle when the engine is cold and warm?

Thanks

Is it a plastic vaned pump? Put it in a pan of boiling water for a few minutes, then, with a cloth, grip the drive pulley and try and turn the vanes - I could just move mine against the pulley, but it had cooled off a bit by the time I got it off.
Thing is, when I had the head gasket done I queried the mechanic about the water pump - but he just spun the pump (head was off by now :rolleyes:) and he said 'no, it's not your pump - look' and you could see the coolant moving in the block. But that was when it was cold!

Your belt is tensioned correctly but the 'new' tension is putting a bit more strain on your tensioner pulley - see my timing belt replacement thread for adding a little grease or fit new - it wont let you down yet. They are about £15 new.

Ha ha - just patience when refitting cover lol

Look for 'min' mark on side at bottom - a 'few centimetres'* above that - make sure not to overfill - I've done this in the past - the weak link is the waterpump seal - I knackered my newly-fitted pump overfilling in a hurry to get to MOT in time. Not the recently fitted one but one before :rolleyes:

*from handbook

cheers
lwm
 
water pumps can be like that.. its strange.

my timing belt tensioner sequels and yet its brand new. only does it for the first few mins of driving though try taking the dust covers out the side of the baring and packing it with new grease.. ive doe that before and it worked great!

the cover.. yeah. you can pull the out easy but getting them back in.. they are also hard to get the lower bolt back in. the 2 at the sides are easy enough. i have a mini mini socket set that "just" fits in if you get the bolt started in the hole first. to make it more easy you can just take off the bottom pulley. use a screw driver to lock the engine through the timing window (just under the thermostat) on the bell housing. do not forget to remove the thing after you have done working on the car!

no need to slacken off the alternator. just remember that when you put the pulley back on it has a locating pin in it, so it goes on the right way.

coolant wise just fill it so its a few inch from the top. i am not sure myself as i do not have a 2wd panda.

hope this helps :)
 
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Wo wo, no, 4x4 have a conventional header tank/expansion tank like my Ducato, 2wd doesn't have the same capacity for expansion so not 2" from top - I'm quoting owner' s manual in my post. The CLX handbook says 'one inch above the min mark' (y)

On the above mentioned MOT where I'd overfilled in a hurry (rushing to catch my retest) there was a sudden gush of water from under the engine (why do they leave 'em running all the time in the test station?) - just a one off leak - but it occurred to me after that it was from the water pump. My conclusion was that a bit of debris/rust got into the seal cos it dripped therafter esp when cold - hence me fitting a new one of late now putting it back on the road... (and rechecking on filling level... :eek:)
 
Lwm - it was a metal vaned impeller that I replaced. I replaced the original plastic pump a couple of years ago, chasing a leak I created by flushing and then overfilling the coolant system because it seemed to me then (as a complete panda newbie) that it was running a little hot. Now, as long as it is not in the red, I will leave well alone!
2nd 20 minute attempt and timing belt cover getting me frustrated. Am tempted by dragon mans bottom pulley removal option.
Main issue is fixed so I reckon this thread is coming to a natural end, so thanks everyone for your help. As always, very much appreciated.
 
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