She's got no power Captain!

Evening All

It's been a while since I have posted anything on the FF however my 1242 mpi Punto engine in my Y10 is not behaving itself so I am turning to you guys for some help.

I had the old girl up at the Scottish Italian Car Day at the end of May which was a 150 mile round trip with no dramas and a great day out. It was running a wee bit on the warm side so I changed the thermostat and flushed though the system. Now she runs bag on the mid point of the gauge.

The grand plan was then to take the Y10 down to Goodwood for the Festival of Speed last weekend. After packing the boot I drove her to get some fuel and provisions on the Thursday morning before embarking on the 900 mile round trip. She started first time as normal but didn't want to accelerate, instead she popped and banged and farted about. It didn't really clear so parked her up on the drive and went to Goodwood in the Abarth (also managed to catch the Retro Show at Santa Pod on the way home!)

So tonight I decided to see if 10 days doing nothing had helped. It hadn't.

She again started first turn of the key and idled fine. I then gave her the beans in first and pulled ok. Then pulling up a short hill in second she spluttered away with bugger all power. I stopped and held the revs about 3000 rpm which wasn't all than smooth then she idled very lumpy and thought she was going to stall. I about turned and drove about my estate for a couple of minutes until the temperature got up. Then went back up the hill still spluttering and out onto the main road. I kept the throttle full open in second and after about 10 seconds of splutter it cleared itself and then accelerated with what appeared to be full power as normal. Took her for a blast with no further issues.

I then parked her up for an hour and exactly the same happened :bang:

So what could be up with her? She isn't using any water or oil and there isn't any mayo on the oil filler cap.

I haven't done a compression check yet but will try and do one this week, which may give some more clues.

Does it sound like a sensor fault? or perhaps the throttle body or injectors?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

Hi Dave,

Sorry to hear the Y10 didn't make it to Goodwood, but at least she decided to play up close to home and not 400 miles away.

With so much rain recently I think the first thing I'd check is that all connectors to the sensors/ecu etc are dry and water tight, ideally using some of that white grease the manufacturers use.

Then I'd have a diagnostics check carried out on the engine management.

Fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator and associated relays may also be worth a look.

One other thing, the fuel you bought wasn't diesel was it? It can happen to the best of us.

My first thought is head gasket. Even a small amount of water getting in one cylinder will cause misfire. Also, if the gasket failed between 2 cylinders will make the engine very lumpy and not cause any loss of fluids. The fact that you had to replace the thermostat because the temperature was higher than usual also points at an early symptoms of HG failure. The fact that it runs fine after been left to cool for a while, also indicates that the head might not be sealing properly when up to running temperature.
Sure, check sensors and get it plugged in some sort of diagnostic system to make sure all your electrics are fine.
But I reckon a compression test or an emission test will prove a mechanical problem.
Good luck!

VmanC said:

Hi Dave,

Sorry to hear the Y10 didn't make it to Goodwood, but at least she decided to play up close to home and not 400 miles away.

With so much rain recently I think the first thing I'd check is that all connectors to the sensors/ecu etc are dry and water tight, ideally using some of that white grease the manufacturers use.

Then I'd have a diagnostics check carried out on the engine management.

Fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator and associated relays may also be worth a look.

One other thing, the fuel you bought wasn't diesel was it? It can happen to the best of us.

Click to expand...

Thanks Vernon

Will give the electronics the once over to the best of my limited ability

Re: She's got no power Captain!

leonsdada said:

My first thought is head gasket. Even a small amount of water getting in one cylinder will cause misfire. Also, if the gasket failed between 2 cylinders will make the engine very lumpy and not cause any loss of fluids. The fact that you had to replace the thermostat because the temperature was higher than usual also points at an early symptoms of HG failure. The fact that it runs fine after been left to cool for a while, also indicates that the head might not be sealing properly when up to running temperature.
Sure, check sensors and get it plugged in some sort of diagnostic system to make sure all your electrics are fine.
But I reckon a compression test or an emission test will prove a mechanical problem.
Good luck!

Click to expand...

Thanks

When she was MOT'd the emissions were high but they were the year before and the year before that!

I think a compression check is first on the list and take it from there. Might be a good excuse to get some work done on the head :devil: if the gasket has failed.

Thanks

Dave

Re: She's got no power Captain!

Anyone know how to change a tread title if you make a typo?

Should be "She's got no power Captain!" and not "go" :bang:

Re: She's got no power Captain!

Dave Henry said:

Anyone know how to change a tread title if you make a typo?

Should be "She's got no power Captain!" and not "go" :bang:

Click to expand...

Ah, I thought it was just your accent Dave.

Re: She's got no power Captain!

Dave Henry said:

Anyone know how to change a tread title if you make a typo?
:bang:

Click to expand...

Oh the irony!

Sorry to hear the shiny red wonder's playing up. For what it's worth it sounds electrical to me, can't see the head gasket giving up quite so dramatically so suddenly, think you'd have had more warning, as Vern said start re seating plugs and earths first.

Re: She's got no power Captain!

firstcar-Y10 said:

Oh the irony!

Sorry to hear the shiny red wonder's playing up. For what it's worth it sounds electrical to me, can't see the head gasket giving up quite so dramatically so suddenly, think you'd have had more warning, as Vern said start re seating plugs and earths first.

Click to expand...

Just seeing if people noticed that one too...:doh:

Thanks Andrew. All avenues both mechanical and electrical will get the once over if it ever stops raining. Although I have seen a gas flowed head on ebay now....

This will sound daft, but is it a Punto engine with the burgundy "master" key? If so, start it with that key, just in case the electrics sort themselves out. Vernon & I picked up a Punto which sounded like a bag of nails with its misfire until I tried the master on it, when it reset all the electrics & lost the misfire (blue key was then fine). A cheap potential fix at least!

This engine has a "learning" ECU so it will try to sort out the problem itself - this could explain why it eventually clears & then happens again at restart.

It sounds electrical to me too. You've changed the HT leads presumably (bleep expensive iirc for the 16v Punto), but I'd then have a look round to check sensors & no damp in the system as said before.

Good luck

Re: She's got no power Captain!

Dave Henry said:

Thanks Andrew. All avenues both mechanical and electrical will get the once over if it ever stops raining. Although I have seen a gas flowed head on ebay now....

Click to expand...

Ah so what's really happening here is you saw that then sabotaged the car as an elaborate cover story for unexpected expenditure ('well I've got to have the head off anyway love'). Say no more

Palio said:

This will sound daft, but is it a Punto engine with the burgundy "master" key? If so, start it with that key, just in case the electrics sort themselves out. Vernon & I picked up a Punto which sounded like a bag of nails with its misfire until I tried the master on it, when it reset all the electrics & lost the misfire (blue key was then fine). A cheap potential fix at least!

This engine has a "learning" ECU so it will try to sort out the problem itself - this could explain why it eventually clears & then happens again at restart.

It sounds electrical to me too. You've changed the HT leads presumably (bleep expensive iirc for the 16v Punto), but I'd then have a look round to check sensors & no damp in the system as said before.

Good luck

Click to expand...

Yes it is a Punto engine and ECU but I had the immobiliser bit removed from the ECU so I could run the original key and wiring.

Not changed the HT leads but will now to see if that helps. Have put some new plugs in though.

Thanks

Dave

Re: She's got no power Captain!

firstcar-Y10 said:

Ah so what's really happening here is you saw that then sabotaged the car as an elaborate cover story for unexpected expenditure ('well I've got to have the head off anyway love'). Say no more

Click to expand...

Sounds like you have used this excuse in the past too

Re: She's got no power Captain!

Some positive progress. A trip to Euro Car Parts to get some HT leads for the bargain price of £11.28. Put them on and the old girl is running a lot better. Don't think it is 100% but like night and day from what it was like before.

Was going to do a compression check but the weather had turned a bit rubbish.

Cheers

Dave

Weirdly mine left the factory with no power.

I've got my sad face on again as I took the Y10 out after lunch and started doing the same as before. Again it cleared after a couple of minutes blipping the throttle whilst sitting on the drive.

Chances are it will do the same when I take it out later. Need to get a hold of someone with a diagnostic machine me thinks

Yup still the same so she is booked in for a check up at CM Garage Services in East Kilbride http://www.cmgarage.com/ next week.

Will report back hopefully on Tuesday.

Cheers

Dave

Re: She's got no power Captain!

Sorry for the delay in updating this post. Only got the Y10 into CM Garage last Wednesday.

Certainly an interesting drive in rush hour traffic around Glasgow with no power

The diagnostic check that Chick at CM did, didn't actually show up anything that would account for the lack of power However, he said that a common fault with that era for FIRE engine is dodgy lambda sensors. And sure enough a new sensor has not only solved the lack of power, it has also made it run a lot smoother and the emissions a way down on what they were.

Massive relief that is was a £44 sensor rather than the head gasket.

Chick also got the the bottom of a really annoying power drain issue on the Y10. It turned out that the interior light was shorting and flattening the battery.

Took the Y10 to the Scottish Italian Car and Bike day on Sunday and she ran soooo much better than she has for a long time. Really glad.

Some amazing machinery on show on Sunday. No less than 50 Ferraris and 30 Lambos but no Classic Pandas Next year?

Thanks to all for your guidance on this thread. Much appreciated.

Dave

Two Scottish Italian car days in one year!

Glad to hear you've got her fixed Dave, sounds like you've found a good garage there.

VmanC said:

Two Scottish Italian car days in one year!

Glad to hear you've got her fixed Dave, sounds like you've found a good garage there.

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Thanks Vernon

CM Garage do a decent job and their labour rates are very reasonable. An interesting array of old and new Alfas, Fiats and Lancias were in the workshop when I was there. The Abarth may pay a visit there rather than letting Arnold Clark have his wicked way with my debit card.

Cheers

Dave