Hi everyone,

My 1992 Fiat Panda 'Sky', with the 1000 FIRE engine, has been sitting in the garage for too long and deserves an MOT. In theory it should just fire up and drive to the MOT station, but I can't get the engine to fire.

The problem started with a bust water pump on a holiday in the Peak District. The engine overheated and blew the head gasket. I replaced both, then a few weeks later the timing belt went in summer 2010 and it's been garaged ever since. I replaced the timing belt, but then the radiator cracked in the winter (someone told me they'd antifreezed it when they clearly hadn't). Then something seized in the carb, so I sent that off and had it fixed. Then the new head gasket blew (I didn't fit it properly). So I've just replaced the head gasket again and connected up the timing belt, but... nada.

There's a spark, there's fuel, and there's air, so I should be getting something? The engine turns on the starter but doesn't fire at all.

Has anyone else had trouble getting the timing marks to line up properly? I've always found it a right bugger and I'm still not sure if it's spot on, but if I move it one tooth in either direction it's still wrong.

Or could the problem be at the distributor end? I marked the distributor before removing it so the casing is lined up as it used to be, but what about the rotating arm inside? If that has been rotated 180 degrees, could that be causing the problem?

I'd really welcome your advice!

Cheers

What seized in the carb? Is their fuel in the cylinder or just in the carb?

There is only one way to fit rotor arm.
As it is '92 does it still have braker points or ignition module?
if points - check point gap/dwell angle.

IMO it's ignition related issue.

With the crank and camshaft lined up to the marks you use to fit a cambelt the rotor arm should point to no.1 plug lead. I'd re check all of this then check you have the firing order right. Are you using the timing marks on the flywheel to get tdc?

VmanC said:

With the crank and camshaft lined up to the marks you use to fit a cambelt the rotor arm should point to no.1 plug lead. I'd re check all of this then check you have the firing order right. Are you using the timing marks on the flywheel to get tdc?

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am i correct in thinking hat it should be lined up on the compression stroke as it takes 2 turns to complete the cycle so could be on the exhaust stroke......never fire....

i only ask cos on my Fiat 125 twin cam had same problem, untill i checked and was indeed on the exhaust stroke....took cam cover of and checked that the inlet valve was closed with the timing markes at correct point, checked rotor arm on No1 lead and all was fandaby dozie...
only my 2 peneth like....

kevin

Yes you are right, but if he does it as I said, ie. with crank AND CAMSHAFT set to their timing marks no.1 cyl. will be on the firing stoke. You see although the crank rotates twice during a cycle the camshaft only rotates once, and when it's timing Mark is lined up no.1 cyl. is always at tdc firing stroke

VmanC said:

Yes you are right, but if he does it as I said, ie. with crank AND CAMSHAFT set to their timing marks no.1 cyl. will be on the firing stoke. You see although the crank rotates twice during a cycle the camshaft only rotates once, and when it's timing Mark is lined up no.1 cyl. is always at tdc firing stroke

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Coooooooool.

Put your location on here...you may get some personal help if someone is near..

gimmiemorefiats said:

Hi everyone,
There's a spark, there's fuel, and there's air, so I should be getting something? The engine turns on the starter but doesn't fire at all.

Has anyone else had trouble getting the timing marks to line up properly?

I'd really welcome your advice!

Cheers

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Hi ,
timing marks should line up well, but it should still pop and bang even a couple of teeth out..,

try spraying a mist of petrol into the injector top ( carb body) as you crank the engine,
if it pops then you'll know it's fuel supply issues,
if not then it's timing - assuming you've not done something daft like leaving things unplugged - or crossed up wires.
Where are you based..??,
Charlie

Thanks folks.

I'm in Horsey, which is about 10 miles north of Yarmouth in Norfolk. If anyone is near and wouldn't mind having a look that would be fantastic. Teabags would be provided aplenty

I think it was a butterfly valve which seized, although to be honest I can't remember exactly as I didn't do the job and it was 12 months ago now. I believe the finished item is the top half from the original carb and the bottom half from another. When I turn the engine the transparent fuel filter fills up and there's a smell of petrol, so I'm assuming it's getting into the cylinders - otherwise it would overflow somewhere wouldn't it?

kolza, amazingly I forgot to check the points gap - will do that in the morning, although I haven't touched them so I don't think they would have moved.

I've got the belt lined up as best as I've ever had it now, really tight all round and near as damn it bang on, maybe one third of a tooth out if anything. I've done this a few times before with this engine (the first time I had an AA man to help me) so I'm certain I'm lining it up in the correct way.

VmanC, I've heard of this method of using the flywheel but I've never done it. Is there an inspection plate or something?

varesecrazy, I'll try putting fuel directly into the carb tomorrow. Worth a shot.

I labelled each HT lead 1-2-3-4 when I took them off, but it's possible I got something wrong. Is there any way of checking which lead should go to which plug, apart from trial and error?

Firing order is 1-3-4-2 going anti-clockwise looking at the distributor from the passenger side.
The inspection hole is in the bell housing directly under the distributor, it's square and should have a rubber plug in it, though most are missing. When the engine is at tdc you should see some grooves cut into the flywheel just inside the starter ring gear, one groove is deeper that the others, this is tdc and it needs to line up with a pointer that you should be able to see too.

Have a quick look https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/283569-timing-marks.html , might be helpfull, by the way, have you checked spark on each plug? If you got contact point you got the condenser aswell (0.20 -0.25 microF).
Try direct petrol "injection" first as mentioned by Varesecrazy to eliminate petrol supply problems.

kolza said:

Have a quick look https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/283569-timing-marks.html , might be helpfull, by the way, have you checked spark on each plug? If you got contact point you got the condenser aswell (0.20 -0.25 microF).
Try direct petrol "injection" first as mentioned by Varesecrazy to eliminate petrol supply problems.

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Ha! forgotten I'd done that thread, good job you remembered Kolsa.

If it is a carbed version, have you connected the wire to the electrical connector on the front of the carburettor (between the carb and the cylinder head).
It won't work without it!
Dave

Pandamaniac your absolutelly right!!!
Fuel cut off solenoid (6,3mm male blade) while turning the key to ignition pos. you should be able to hear "click" sound from around carb.

pandamaniac said:

If it is a carbed version, have you connected the wire to the electrical connector on the front of the carburettor (between the carb and the cylinder head).
It won't work without it!
Dave

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It will still fire if you give it a bit of throttle though, just won't idle. I can't imagine the OP will have just sat and churned away without prodding the accellerator pedal on a carb car that isn't starting.