Hi gents,

Back again as promised with another 1986 Panda 4x4 to keep company to its Sisley sibling. This time driven all the way up from Nottingham. The car is in very good general condition, the engine has had some new parts fitted and is very clean with no rust, the bodywork is in superb condition apart from both lower door panels (the sills are ok, though). The sound of the engine both on idle and with gear engaged was fine and the car drove o.k. The only problem, already stressed by the seller as such, was that when accelerating, especially with 3rd and 4th engaged, the car had obvious flatspots, you felt the acceleration was intermittent, the same when on throttle. I thought it was probably down to the fact that the engine needed a good clean up, maybe with something like Redex. So, I was about to take pictures of the Sisley and my recent acquisition and post them for you, and then go on with my sisleyfication plans, when disaster stroke (so to speak)!
Yesterday morning the Panda engine started off as usual, I let it run for a while in idle listening to the radio in order to warm it up, then it seemed to me it started loosing revs so I switched it off. Then it would not start off again (the starter motor would engage but the engine simply would not start). When I came back from work the same evening, I had to move out into my girlfriends apartment, so I gave it a try just in case and... it started off without a hussle. However, today it was more of the same. After I switched the engine off it would not start again. Only this time after 3-4 attempts to start the engine off the starter motor faded away to the point of not responding at all and it would not even jump start with the aid of jump leads. Have you got any idea what the problem might be? Have you had anything similar in the past? Any help would be really appreciated as always. Thanks.

P.S. Sisleyfication will go on one way or another, after I solve this little problem, I'm already getting quotations from mechanics for the job.

With regards the starter motor. We had a problem a few weeks ago, where we could not get the engine to start just as you described. The battery also went flat and the starter motor wouldn't work, just as you described. We tried jump starting it and nothing. We then worked out that the jump leads had a bad connection to one of the crimps. Worth double checking with another set of jump leads, or if you are confident doing this try and create a spark between the two set of leads by lightly touching them. Wouldn't risk this if the donor car has an ecu.
The problem we were having with the engine was due to the fuel lines. The engine was simply not getting any fuel. Have you got one of those clear perspex fuel filters? Can you see fuel getting through it?
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Ben

Hi Gentzen.
My initial thought would be the fuel pump. A simple, but slightly dodgy way of finding out, is to take the air filter off and pour about 20cc of petrol into the carb then start the car. If it starts, runs a few secs, then stops, its a fuel supply problem.
Good luck and happy Pandering.

On mine i've got a clear fuel filter that's always full of gas, if i rev the car real fast you can actually see the fuel level drop to almost half before it stabelizes and starts to refill . I'm not sure if other cars have a filter there, i know i put mine in when i scrapped the 750 non-fire

rrockettman said:

Hi Gentzen.
My initial thought would be the fuel pump. A simple, but slightly dodgy way of finding out, is to take the air filter off and pour about 20cc of petrol into the carb then start the car. If it starts, runs a few secs, then stops, its a fuel supply problem.
Good luck and happy Pandering.

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Gentzen01 said:

The only problem, already stressed by the seller as such, was that when accelerating, especially with 3rd and 4th engaged, the car had obvious flatspots, you felt the acceleration was intermittent, the same when on throttle.

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As a no cost test:
Check the vacuum advance unit by disconnecting the hose from the inlet manifold, and trying to blow into the advance cartridge (I know it works the other way, but you want the least petrol in your mouth possible - preferably none.), if there isn't an obvious blockage the cartridge has failed.
When the ignition is retarded by the 10 or 12 degrees the advance cartidge gives it will be be prone to flat spots, and not as lively as it should be.

Gentzen01 said:

Yesterday morning the Panda engine started off as usual, I let it run for a while in idle listening to the radio in order to warm it up, then it seemed to me it started loosing revs so I switched it off. Then it would not start off again (the starter motor would engage but the engine simply would not start). When I came back from work the same evening, I had to move out into my girlfriends apartment, so I gave it a try just in case and... it started off without a hussle. However, today it was more of the same. After I switched the engine off it would not start again. Only this time after 3-4 attempts to start the engine off the starter motor faded away to the point of not responding at all and it would not even jump start with the aid of jump leads. Have you got any idea what the problem might be? Have you had anything similar in the past? Any help would be really appreciated as always. Thanks.

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You need to check if there is a spark:
use a spare spark plug on one of the HT leads and touch the threaded part of the plug onto the camshaft cover (you might want to use heavily insulated pliers to hold the plug), then check for a spark in the end of that plug when the engine is cranked.

Obviously you need to charge the battery up first.

The ignition module in the distributor in the 4x4 Panda (and Uno ) is prone to causing problems, but it is commonly a complete cut out when hot - and then it will work after cooling down for a while.

A different set of symptoms, but something to consider, if you have no spark.

This sounds exactly like the problem I had with my Panda. I had it down as a fuel supply problem and spent a few weeks trying to figure it out. I replaced the fuel pump but the problem persisted. The car would start only when it wanted to and it cut out a couple of times on the road.

Eventually I gave up and took it to the chap that works on my cars. He pinpointed the vacuum advance straight away. £17 later and 5 minutes to fit it and the car hasn't missed a beat.

Rather than get a shock from the spark plug, try getting a spark plug tester from halfords. The base of it goes over the plug, and the top of it is covered by the HT lead. If the spark plug is ok, the tester will flash. (it only costs £2.99).

christopher watson said:

Rather than get a shock from the spark plug, try getting a spark plug tester from halfords. The base of it goes over the plug, and the top of it is covered by the HT lead. If the spark plug is ok, the tester will flash. (it only costs £2.99).

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Good idea.

The wonderful thing about using a spark plug tester, is that you dont have to take the spark plug out.

That's true - but I suggested using a spare plug..

The symptoms are classic fuel supply issues. Have you tried the suggestion from rocketman of pouring some fuel down the carb and then starting?

If not, do this before anything else. I've seen the lift pump rubber diaphragms perish with age. It starts with not enough fuel supply for full power and becomes no fuel delivery at all.

If it was the vacuum advance, the engine would still start.