Technical help fitting rear brake shoes and drum

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Technical help fitting rear brake shoes and drum

starsky

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I wondered if anyone could give me help with fitting new rear brake shoes and drums. We bought some new ones and have removed the old ones fine.
When we've gone to fit the new shoes weve put them on and attached the springs but when weve gone to put the new drum on theres no way it will fit. We've got a hayes book which simple adviced to give the drum a good hit with rubber mallet but that wouldn't work.
i'm pressuming theres some type of adjuster for the shoes but not being a mechanic and never done back shoes before i have no idea.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
sorry if this has been posted before i couldn't find it
 
There are two designs of adjustment.

The early system uses friction pads, you simply push the shoes in towards the centre to give them thier starting point, the drum should fit easily then.

The later has a ratchet system. You need to ensure that the ratchet is set at the beginning of it's adjustment to get the drum on. Once the drum fits easily, take the drum back off and click the adjuster up one tooth, then re-check that the drum still fits on. Keep doing this until you can just fit the drum on with no binding.

(y)
 
i just fitted new shoes with the ratchet system, fitted them on and then pushed the lever on the ratchet with a screwdriver and it went back to the start, then put drum on and pull lever for hand brake and it clicked and now is set correct, can pull the lever by hand whilst spinning drum and stops really well..

kevin
 
thanks for your messages.

I have a G reg panda 4x4 so does anyone know which would be on my car?

I've tried to move them into centre but they don't budge but to be honest I have no idea about the ratchet system you are talking about. I have very basic knowledge and have done most jobs using my hayes book.
 
thanks for your messages.

I have a G reg panda 4x4 so does anyone know which would be on my car?

I've tried to move them into centre but they don't budge but to be honest I have no idea about the ratchet system you are talking about. I have very basic knowledge and have done most jobs using my hayes book.

You've probably got the early type then. Do the shoes have spring loaded discs fitted to them that fit over pins on the backplate?
If so, pushing the shoes in towards the centre as far as they will go should do the trick. Make sure, also, that the shoes are located on the wheel cylinder and bottom pivot correctly.

Probably a little late for you, but a tip for anyone doing brake shoes for the first time is to do one side completely first, that way you have the other side to compare with to ensure you have everything back in the same place.

Just remembered, there are a couple of pics and some info in this thread,

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/230118-pandas-reunited-my-old-fizz.html

it is of the ratchet type so probably won't be of much use to you other than to confirm that it's not the type you have.
 
Last edited:
thanks for all your help, I will try and have another go in the week and hope that I can get them on this time!
 
Just for general info.

My rear brake imbalance was caused (i believe!) by a leaking wheel cylinder which by the state of the drum had been like it for a while. Lots of goozy black dust.

Fortunately for me the old cylinder came off really quite easily no dramas at all and the new one on the same.

The cam style adjusters were heard to be working as I pressed the footbrake, now I just need to adjust the handbrake as it has a little too much travel.

Just test drove this morning and she so reminds me of driving an original Mini, goes well enough, steering is superb and she stops on a button now!!

Just hope the CT (mot) man thinks the same.(y):worship:


Dave
 
From my Project Peterborough thread...

Okay here we go. As usual this is how I did it and not a comprehensive guide.

Replacing the slave cylinder and brake shoes from a Panda 4x4.


Take your Fiat Panda 4x4 and...

4bNkbGr4.jpg


...elevate the rear of the car (in my case van) using ramps...

m8NgMNRF.jpg


...support the axle with a trolley jack and remove the wheel bolts.

l2LBjBUx.jpg


Once loosened, remove the wheel and move the ramp out of the way.

PYKv4xsU.jpg


Inspect the brake drum for possible signs of damage, warping and surrounding areas for brake fluid and axle grease.

rTgkTpPT.jpg


Removed the 12mm locating pin and bolt from the drum...

DnmdN31K.jpg


...and with a little persuasion remove the drum itself.

IcEpl7Da.jpg


Next we remove the pin from the handbrake mechanism...

Xm0SvmEQ.jpg


...the "R" clip can be rusty so be prepared to grind it off and drill the hole in the pin later.

nKfgxny2.jpg


Next we remove the 10mm bolt and seal form the end of the half shaft. Undo the 17mm bolts at the back of the hub bearing...

7flNCct0.jpg


...and take the hub bearing out freeing the backing plate from the axle.

Next I tilted the backing plate forward...

LGExWN3i.jpg


...because this slave cylinder is junk and I didn't want to leak brake fluid everywhere I used the grinder...

XDy8xO2v.jpg


...to get the bleed nipple out of the way.

Next we get the brake line spanner and place it on the back of the slave cylinder...

IsVoa5S8.jpg


...crank it loose and then turn the base plate to remove it from the car completely.

QpbZGkIK.jpg


I do this because it's so much easier to strip and reassemble on a bench or sat on the floor with it in front of you.

bmWx1nRA.jpg


The eagle eyed will have spotted there was nothing holding the front shoe on and a 10mm bolt holding the rear shoe in place. :rolleyes:

At least it isn't black silicone for a change. Probably just as well the slave cylinder was knackered. If I had brakes I'd probably be dead from the first time I slowed from 50+mph.

Okay soap box away...

1XWQwkdi.jpg


The whole brake assembly is now apart so I can...

sqq2xJxC.jpg


...give it a quick going over with a wire brush and...

ghQpfjZ4.jpg


...make sure I have everything I need to put it all back together (good old shed. I had the shoe locating pins and spring clips from my old car, funny shoe and wheel cylinder kits don't come with new ones these days).

First of all I put the new slave cylinder in place. Held closed with a cable tie.

MibcYQkz.jpg


The rear shoe...

isGpsnqj.jpg


...springs...

W02qtUGZ.jpg


...thread the springs into the rear shoe...

HC7vzIV4.jpg


...pull across and locate with the pins and clips.

383DcUCS.jpg


This is so much easier than faffing about with spring pullers and ripping your knuckles apart trying to replace the shoes with the backing plate on the car. ;)

Remove the cable tie and line the ends of the cylinder up to the shoes.

Kn0V6Tu6.jpg


Okay I close the cylinder so it doesn't get in the way when I stretch the shoes across. I've seen people rip the rubber seals with the shoes if they are left open.

Replacing the backing plate is the reverse of removal (obviously) but instead of grinding the nipple out of the way I simply remove it...

kLSr4jJq.jpg


...rotating the backing plate and torquing it against the brake line spanner.

Once tight replace the bleed nipple finger tight so you can bleed the bakes later.

FMF7D00v.jpg


Always put the dust cover back on the nipple before putting the assembly back together. There's all kinds of crap in your wheel arches and a dirty nipple won't bleed properly later.

Finally put the backing plate in place, push the hub bearing back and secure with the 17mm bolts, cap off the end of the half shaft with the 10mm bolt and washer...

hkMvuYTk.jpg


...the drum will go on a bloody sight easier than it came off. Bleed the brakes as usual and wonder why your rear axle now makes noise. ;)


...I hope this helps. :)
 
From my Project Peterborough thread...

Okay here we go. As usual this is how I did it and not a comprehensive guide.

Replacing the slave cylinder and brake shoes from a Panda 4x4.


Take your Fiat Panda 4x4 and...

4bNkbGr4.jpg


...elevate the rear of the car (in my case van) using ramps...

m8NgMNRF.jpg


...support the axle with a trolley jack and remove the wheel bolts.

l2LBjBUx.jpg


Once loosened, remove the wheel and move the ramp out of the way.

PYKv4xsU.jpg


Inspect the brake drum for possible signs of damage, warping and surrounding areas for brake fluid and axle grease.

rTgkTpPT.jpg


Removed the 12mm locating pin and bolt from the drum...

DnmdN31K.jpg


...and with a little persuasion remove the drum itself.

IcEpl7Da.jpg


Next we remove the pin from the handbrake mechanism...

Xm0SvmEQ.jpg


...the "R" clip can be rusty so be prepared to grind it off and drill the hole in the pin later.

nKfgxny2.jpg


Next we remove the 10mm bolt and seal form the end of the half shaft. Undo the 17mm bolts at the back of the hub bearing...

7flNCct0.jpg


...and take the hub bearing out freeing the backing plate from the axle.

Next I tilted the backing plate forward...

LGExWN3i.jpg


...because this slave cylinder is junk and I didn't want to leak brake fluid everywhere I used the grinder...

XDy8xO2v.jpg


...to get the bleed nipple out of the way.

Next we get the brake line spanner and place it on the back of the slave cylinder...

IsVoa5S8.jpg


...crank it loose and then turn the base plate to remove it from the car completely.

QpbZGkIK.jpg


I do this because it's so much easier to strip and reassemble on a bench or sat on the floor with it in front of you.

bmWx1nRA.jpg


The eagle eyed will have spotted there was nothing holding the front shoe on and a 10mm bolt holding the rear shoe in place. :rolleyes:

At least it isn't black silicone for a change. Probably just as well the slave cylinder was knackered. If I had brakes I'd probably be dead from the first time I slowed from 50+mph.

Okay soap box away...

1XWQwkdi.jpg


The whole brake assembly is now apart so I can...

sqq2xJxC.jpg


...give it a quick going over with a wire brush and...

ghQpfjZ4.jpg


...make sure I have everything I need to put it all back together (good old shed. I had the shoe locating pins and spring clips from my old car, funny shoe and wheel cylinder kits don't come with new ones these days).

First of all I put the new slave cylinder in place. Held closed with a cable tie.

MibcYQkz.jpg


The rear shoe...

isGpsnqj.jpg


...springs...

W02qtUGZ.jpg


...thread the springs into the rear shoe...

HC7vzIV4.jpg


...pull across and locate with the pins and clips.

383DcUCS.jpg


This is so much easier than faffing about with spring pullers and ripping your knuckles apart trying to replace the shoes with the backing plate on the car. ;)

Remove the cable tie and line the ends of the cylinder up to the shoes.

Kn0V6Tu6.jpg


Okay I close the cylinder so it doesn't get in the way when I stretch the shoes across. I've seen people rip the rubber seals with the shoes if they are left open.

Replacing the backing plate is the reverse of removal (obviously) but instead of grinding the nipple out of the way I simply remove it...

kLSr4jJq.jpg


...rotating the backing plate and torquing it against the brake line spanner.

Once tight replace the bleed nipple finger tight so you can bleed the bakes later.

FMF7D00v.jpg


Always put the dust cover back on the nipple before putting the assembly back together. There's all kinds of crap in your wheel arches and a dirty nipple won't bleed properly later.

Finally put the backing plate in place, push the hub bearing back and secure with the 17mm bolts, cap off the end of the half shaft with the 10mm bolt and washer...

hkMvuYTk.jpg


...the drum will go on a bloody sight easier than it came off. Bleed the brakes as usual and wonder why your rear axle now makes noise. ;)


...I hope this helps. :)

None of those pics are hosted on the forum so I can't see a single one :bang:
 
I am proud to proclaim I managed to complete a change of rear shoes today. And what a job that is.
Fortunately, weeping slave cylinders aside, it's not something that needs doing often but why so difficult? - The guide above is good and I did it without breaking into the brake line so avoided the need to bleed, but really? - Wheel bearings had to come off and handbrake cable disconnected, just for brake shoes!
This is the first disappointing piece of design I've come across on the whole car. Give me gearbox rebuilds every time.

Rant over.

Thank you for listening.

Sorry.
 
you dont need to remove the wheel bearing or handbrake cable..??

i managed on Talon and Fallout (both 4x4s) to do it just by levering out the bottom of the shoes first. it makes it 100 times more easy.. then its the same for getting them back on.

i can do them really quick now i have it down to an art :D
 
I must second John on this one as the bearing doesn't have to come off. On the rear of the hub there are two flat bits which line up with the central rotation points on the shoes (the silver rings) if you turn the round until these line up, remove both springs then the shoes fold towards you and come off no problem - a tip for the future :thumbup:
 
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