Hi @portland_bill , i have been searching for information on timing belt tensioning for the 1.2 8V. The tensioner does not have an indicator and merely has a centre plate with two holes to allow the tensioner to be rotated to tighten the belt. Various sources have offered different methods to ensure the belt is appropriately tight, however, none fill me with any confidence.My Haynes for the Panda gives the following for 1.1 and 1.2 8v. So if yours is an 8v engine.
Mains:
20Nm / 15 lbf/ft
Then angle tighten a further 90 degrees.
Big Ends:
20Nm / 15 lbf/ft
Then angle tighten a further 40 degrees.
I imagine you may also have the head off.
Head bolts: New! Do not reuse the old ones as they will have stretched and will not give the right torque.
30Nm / 22lbf/ft
Then a further 90 degrees
Then a further 90 degrees again.
Camshaft bearing cap bolts:
M6
10Nm / 7 lbf/ft
M8
20Nm / 15 lbf/ft
Camshaft sprocket bolt
70Nm / 52 lbf/ft
Flywheel bolts
15Nm / 11 lbf/ft
Then a further 40 degrees.
Ask again if you need anything else.
If yours is 16v, ask again and hopefully someone else will have those figures.
Hi @bugsymike , thanks for the response. The fiat Palio is a 1200cc, 2002 year model. It has the 178B motor and the tensioner does revolve eccentrically to adjust. I will be replacing the water pump as well as the tensioner when i do the cambelt. Thank you kindly for the advice!If your Fiat Palio/Weekend ? is a 1.2 built between 2000-06 1242cc engine series 188A4.000 then I have Technical Data Manual giving torques, oils and much more. If you want a photo let me know.
Re cambelt tension, without seeing it I an guessing it is one where the water pump or another guide is revolved eccentrically to adjust, if it is the water pump and even if not, but driven by cambelt then it makes sense to change it at the same time as often a new belt sitting in a different position may finish off an old water pump plus replace antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor.
Re tension, when cambelts were first introduced it was largely done by the experience of the mechanic much in the same way as fan/alternator belts, by the amount of deflection at the longest distance between gears/sprockets, the trouble is that depends on the effort involved though roughly 10-13mm with a finger. Personally I always did that, then ran the engine for a few minutes and rechecked, of course any undue bearing noise indicates too tight and it should go without saying that even after timing correctly always turn the engine over by hand at least two full revolutions and then rechecking timing before trying to start engine and never had any failures with any of my customers.
Later various tension measuring tools came out for different makes, before finally adopting the current solutions. Experience always helps.
Although I have marked the 188A4.000 I see the only model listed as 178B is the 1.4 listed two columns further over.Hi @bugsymike , thanks for the response. The fiat Palio is a 1200cc, 2002 year model. It has the 178B motor and the tensioner does revolve eccentrically to adjust. I will be replacing the water pump as well as the tensioner when i do the cambelt. Thank you kindly for the advice!
I did have a couple of different tension measuring gauges, one was for Renaults I recall, but they gave a reading depending on the manufacturer which often didn't directly correlate to other makes.A method for tensioning, that does seem to work, for manual adjustment belts, is to twist the belt on its longest run. I've used this many times on early Panda and Seicento.
The section between the cam and water pump seems best for this.
Tension the belt. Somewhere near adequate is good to start with.
Hold belt, mid-way betenn cam and pump pulleys, and try to twist the belt through 90 degrees. If you can't get to 90 degrees, it is probably a bit tight, if it goes beyond, even a little, it is slack.
This works, regardless of your own strength, because the force needed to twist it increases exponentially as it twists. At the point where most of us cannot twist any further, the force needed for just a bit more is huge.
This is of course at your own risk, and it does require a bit of 'feel' expertise, which vehicle technicians, and keen DIYers do develop.
On early vehicles, the official method involves a lever and spring tension gauge. Later official manuals show an electronic device for measuring the tension. I cannot now find a reference to the lever and spring tension gauge, it may have been on the Seicento eLearn CD that I gave away when I sold the car. I have Haynes manuals for classic Panda and Cinquecento, both of which describe the 90 degree method.
My brother, despite years of DIY car work, still overtightens nearly everything, but occasionally leaves stuff slack. Luckily not lost wheels, or other components yet.As you say "feel" develops with experience, much in the way tightening bolts etc. some will never acquire, those I would describe as not mechanically sympathetic.
There's a bonus though, once stripped, the nut won't come off past the 'shoulder'.We used to get asked "how tight" and joked "strip the threads and back half a turn" sadly some took that as gospel!
I did have a friend whose own Morris Minor rear wheel passed him, having said that it was the earlier ones that had pins sticking out to push the hub cap over and being the weaker type the whole wheel apart from the centre with the nuts came off. He wasn't renowned for gentle driving though.There's a bonus though, once stripped, the nut won't come off past the 'shoulder'.
Then there was 'FT', requiring a long wrench, or a strong technician.
When I started in the trade, weekends while still at school, the boss set a bolt in the vice, with a spacer of sorts, and asked me to do it up to the 'right' tightness. Then checked with a torque wrench. Repeated for all the usual sizes. I surprisingly got the 'feel' very quickly. It has served me well. Last time my brother presented his vehicle, with wheelnuts feeling a bit slack, I did them up, then got the torque wrench out. Still got the skill! Brother was well off, but still stubbornly insists on doing it 'his way'.