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Old 20-07-2009   #1
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Palio Weekend 1.6 16v - Brit owner in Brazil

My first post here after lurking for a while and getting some good information (thanks!)
I am a Brit working for a couple of years near Rio de Janeiro, needed a used car and settled on one which seems very common here - the Palio Weekend 'Stile'. It's a 2000 model and after sorting out a few rattles (these Brazilian roads......) and minor issues, I'm pretty happy with performance and reliability. However, the gearbox / drivetrain seems noisy for a car which has done only 116,000Km in 9 years. I accept that some road noise is coming from the front tyres (Pirelli P400) but I still think the box whines more than I'd like. The front wheel bearings seem OK when 'rocking' the wheels by hand when the car is jacked. The engine type is 178A8011. The questions are therefore:
1. Is this a 'normal' issue for the Palio 1.6?
2. The gearbox oil looks new and level is good, in fact it seems a little over-full when the level plug was briefly removed. Could over-filling be the issue?
3. The car is new to me so I don't know what oil was used in the 'box. Can I drain / replace easily? What oil is recommended?
4. Would use of an oil additive make it quieter?
5. Can the gearbox be checked for wear or 'serviced' for worn components?

Any help will be appreciated - cheers.
Andy
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Old 26-07-2009   #2
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Re: Palio Weekend 1.6 16v - Brit owner in Brazil

Are you sure the noise comes from the gearbox?
Maybe the tires are "cupped", have a sawtooth tread, making whining noise.
Just feel at the outside tread against driving position, if the tires are cupped you will feel it right away!
Our 2000 Palio Weekend 1,6-16V does it with some brand tires, but not with other brands.
I used to drive with Pirelli P6000, and they were very noisy, now Pirelli P6 is on, no noise at all!
Don't use any additives in your gearbox, it can destroy synchromesh rings.
For the correct oil look at your local Castrol site www.castrol.com or maybe www.castrol.br
And yes, the gearbox oil is easy to drain and to fill, the drainplug is on the lower left side of the gearbox, and the fillerplug you already discovered.
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Old 27-07-2009   #3
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Re: Palio Weekend 1.6 16v - Brit owner in Brazil

Many Thanks for the reply!
I am hoping you're right about the noise being tyres. On a recent inspection of the front steering and suspension while the car was jacked-up I found one of the lower 'king-pins' (sorry this might not be the right term) was very loose and re-tightening it took-out a lot of 'play' in the steering. No doubt this was affecting the front wheel alignment and almost certainly wearing the tyre(s) unevenly. On checking as you suggest, there is a slight amount of 'saw-tooth' but not as much as I'd expect. Perhaps at the next opportunity I should swap the front left-and-right wheels so they rotate the 'other way' and see if this changes or improves the noise?

I looked for a drain plug on the 'box but it's not really obvious like the level plug is. Can you elaborate - is the drain on the underside (left-end) of the 'box', or on the end itself?

Thanks again - I'm sure I can do some more investigating with these tyres before concluding it's a gearbox problem. And when it's time for a tire change, I'll try to go for the P6s as you suggest.
Cheers, Andy
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Old 27-07-2009   #4
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Re: Palio Weekend 1.6 16v - Brit owner in Brazil

Arrggghhh, technical English, not my strongest point.
Anyway, I will try, the drainplug looks exactly like the filling plug ( it holds a magnet, that you will see as soon when you have the drainplug out).
You use the same tool for the filling, and the drainplug.
When you're on the fillingplug, look lower and to the right side, just in front of the driving axle, there it is, the factory colored it yellow, but maybe it's dirty.
Only rotate tires from front to rear on the same side, don't let them drive the otherway around, do so every +/-7000 mls. and you lower the chance for sawtooth tread.
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Old 27-07-2009   #5
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Re: Palio Weekend 1.6 16v - Brit owner in Brazil

Thanks again for a very informative reply - all well understood; I'm sure I've been looking at that drain plug and not recognising it!

Also understood regarding the tyres; I was thinking if the tyres were 'cupped' then swapping them side for side might reverse the issue, but as you say it might make it worse. To be honest, if its these front tyres making all the whining noise, I don't really mind accelerating their wear if it helps get rid of the problem. Perhaps the sooner I change them for P6s the better!

Many Thanks again, very helpful, and 'Sorry ik spreek geen Nederlands'. I was in Holland a few times in the past for business and with the RAF at the Nijmegen Vierdaagse several crazy times, but after briefly trying to speak Dutch, I found most people (like you) speak excellent English! It puts us Brits to shame, really.....

Cheers, Andy
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Old 28-07-2009   #6
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Re: Palio Weekend 1.6 16v - Brit owner in Brazil

Thanks....!!

We drive our Palio since 2003, and it has been very reliable since then, a bit thirsty maybe.
Not many are sold overhere, only about 3500 in 6 years, all Weekend versions.
It was never sold in the UK, although there were plans at some time.
We just came back from a 3 week holiday in Somerset, as I have removed all the badges from the car, I wonder if many people overthere have recognized it....!
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Old 10-08-2009   #7
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Re: Palio Weekend 1.6 16v - Brit owner in Brazil

I swapped the rear tyres (non-Pirelli) for the front Pirelli P400s and the whining noise has (as you predicted) all-but gone. I'm sure now that the front alignment was out-of-adjustment because I found the 'king-pin' at the bottom of the suspension-strut (where it attaches to the lower radius-arm) was not tightened-up properly, so a pretty bad 'toe-out' situation would have happened, maybe for a long time before I bought the car. Tightening it up and swapping the wheels around has cut the noise down. Next I'll be looking to put some new Pirelli P6s on the front and get the alignment right. So it looks like the gearbox is OK after all!
Cheers, Andy
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Old 10-08-2009   #8
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Re: Palio Weekend 1.6 16v - Brit owner in Brazil

Brit owner in Netherlands (Hoofddorp) who also speaks no Dutch coz the Dutch themselves are so good with English.
Anyway have had Palios in Germany, Poland and Holland as they are the most practical family car for the money I have ever found.
Problem i have is that every APK (MOT) now there is always something to do on this one. My biggest issue is that the odometer has jumped from 135k to 325k in a year (annual mileage 20k !!) by having the high numbers all flick over wrong. And this one (98 june registered) is starting to feel tired so i think it may have to go to pastures new. but just wanted to share that with you as a fellow Brit Palio 'fan'
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Old 11-08-2009   #9
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Re: Palio Weekend 1.6 16v - Brit owner in Brazil

Well, it's getting crowed here.....

Good to see that the noise is not the gearbox!
About the alignment: Palio's are very sensitive about that, to much toe-out will cause the tread on the inside of the tire wear fast!
So have the alignment done by someone with the correct equipment/ tools and the right attitude....!
And have it set at minimum toe-out!

In fact, just today I had an alignment for my '93 Fiorino Pick-Up, Brazilian made, done, a predecessor for the Palio!
The car ran great, no steering problems at all, but again, it was eating the inside tread of my new tires.... to much toe-out...I hope it's better now!

Brit owner in Hoofddorp:no car will be tired, no matter it's age, in fact the Palio was designed to have a long, long life of hard use!!
Try www.tuynder.nl for new, inexpensive, original parts, they are not that far away from you.
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