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Panda panda help please

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Panda panda help please

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yorkieme

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hello can some one help please
i have just purchased a panda 2009 1.1 active eco .. on my way home the engine dipped and the management light came on then when off this only seems to happen going up or down a hill ,,
i did fill the car up to brim with fuel ..
phoned the garage where brought form they says because its not used for a while !!
i have plugged in my own engine management reader and no codes presents so very confusing .. does anyone have any ideas ?
kind regards
 
Firstly, this is better asked in the Panda section, likely to get more help there.

A sudden cough uphill can be caused by something struggling under load, but downhill as well suggests something about engine movement.

Garage fob-off about lack of use is rubbish. Although if the tank has accumulated some crap it might block the fuel pipe, but this would be complete failure, not a hiccup. Any small muck would affect one injector, and stay affected, so we can probably rule that out.

Did any other lights come on? Loss of power steering perhaps? A common problem is the earth cable from battery to engine and body. These corrode inside, and break within their sheathing, so hide their failure. Serious engine movement can break the connection, but would expect lots of lights, or all off. Soft or failing engine mountings can give similar issues.

If it has been sat for a while, it is likely that the battery has been disconnected, hopefully to preserve it, or more likely to charge it after allowed to go flat. Check the battery terminals, someone might have just pushed them on and forgotten to tighten.

If that's not it, re-post in Panda section.
 
portland_bill said:
Firstly, this is better asked in the Panda section, likely to get more help there.

A sudden cough uphill can be caused by something struggling under load, but downhill as well suggests something about engine movement.

Garage fob-off about lack of use is rubbish. Although if the tank has accumulated some crap it might block the fuel pipe, but this would be complete failure, not a hiccup. Any small muck would affect one injector, and stay affected, so we can probably rule that out.

Did any other lights come on? Loss of power steering perhaps? A common problem is the earth cable from battery to engine and body. These corrode inside, and break within their sheathing, so hide their failure. Serious engine movement can break the connection, but would expect lots of lights, or all off. Soft or failing engine mountings can give similar issues.

If it has been sat for a while, it is likely that the battery has been disconnected, hopefully to preserve it, or more likely to charge it after allowed to go flat. Check the battery terminals, someone might have just pushed them on and forgotten to tighten.

If that's not it, re-post in Panda section.
Click to expand...
hi
thank you for your reply
no only the engine management light came on and does only briefly for a few seconds .
the drop in power only seems to happen up or down a hill and is only a slight drop
kind regards
 
The garage comment about lack of use causing your fault might be a fob-off, but there might also be some truth in it.

The way to tell is to use the car regularly for a few days, make sure that the battery is holding a full charge (get yourself a C-Tek if you can afford it), and then see what happens. If the problem clears up, the garage was right. If it doesn't, go straight back to them and complain.
 
Sweetsixteen said:
The garage comment about lack of use causing your fault might be a fob-off, but there might also be some truth in it.

The way to tell is to use the car regularly for a few days, make sure that the battery is holding a full charge (get yourself a C-Tek if you can afford it), and then see what happens. If the problem clears up, the garage was right. If it doesn't, go straight back to them and complain.
Click to expand...

Hi thank you for your reply,
I have checked the battery connection and everything seems ok , nothing loose .
If you plug a obd fault code reader in it shows no faults so very confusing .
 
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With an oldish car you could invest in a can of "Cataclean", not cheap but a good product recommended by the trade for a fuel system / Cat clean-up. Combined with a good thrash now and again to blow things through! You'll get an idea of what full performance feels like.

Seems odd if there are no faults stored (yet) so as you say it's an intermittent problem. Up or down hill does suggest a fuel problem but would that cause the ECU light to come on? Is something putting it temporarily into limp mode?

Are you confident that your reader would show everything that a professional one might show?

Check the exhaust for leaks or cracks around the manifold / Cat / lambdas. They can screw up the ECU input signals and confuse it.
 
bluejohn125 said:
With an oldish car you could invest in a can of "Cataclean", not cheap but a good product recommended by the trade for a fuel system / Cat clean-up. Combined with a good thrash now and again to blow things through! You'll get an idea of what full performance feels like.

Seems odd if there are no faults stored (yet) so as you say it's an intermittent problem. Up or down hill does suggest a fuel problem but would that cause the ECU light to come on? Is something putting it temporarily into limp mode?

Are you confident that your reader would show everything that a professional one might show?

Check the exhaust for leaks or cracks around the manifold / Cat / lambdas. They can screw up the ECU input signals and confuse it.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply
I wlll check the exhaust system out . And a catclean too
The reader I have is basic but picks up genetic a d manufacturers codes as did on my previous car .
 
Another thought. Check the connections to the lambda sensors. There are two of them, but the connectors should be easy to locate. Check they are clean and apparently making good contact. Also check the cables for any fouling or chafing.

If the first sensor is breaking down, momentarily, the ECU would alter the fuelling to suit the 'new' reading, so this may develop. At least if one fails, it is then easier to identify.

I'm not convinced about any product that proposes to clean the catalyst. I've not yet seen a satisfactory explanation of how such a chemical can pass through the combustion process, at around 850 degrees, and still be able to perform its cleaning duties in the catalyst. Any trade member recommending it is probably making a nice profit from it.
 
The 1.1 is noted for having a weak wire or joint in the engines wiring loom.
Oddly, the 1.2's don't suffer from it.

It can cause misfires and cutting out particularly over bumps that disturb the loom.

The wire in question seems to be some sort of common wire (earth?) that appears to be shared with the coil and injectors as the problem seems to manifest it's self in these two systems, so it's the loom to the top end of the engine.

Good news is the problem have been found and fixes have been made, Superste finaly nailed it down here
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/420817-injector-problem-code-p0202-cyl-2-injector.html

There's plenty of other threads relating to the problem, this one was quite a bun fight!
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/317388-panda-eco-1-1-2010-misfire-fix.html
 
portland_bill said:
Another thought. Check the connections to the lambda sensors. There are two of them, but the connectors should be easy to locate. Check they are clean and apparently making good contact. Also check the cables for any fouling or chafing.

If the first sensor is breaking down, momentarily, the ECU would alter the fuelling to suit the 'new' reading, so this may develop. At least if one fails, it is then easier to identify.

I'm not convinced about any product that proposes to clean the catalyst. I've not yet seen a satisfactory explanation of how such a chemical can pass through the combustion process, at around 850 degrees, and still be able to perform its cleaning duties in the catalyst. Any trade member recommending it is probably making a nice profit from it.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply will try and locate these later and have a look .
 
Goudrons said:
The 1.1 is noted for having a weak wire or joint in the engines wiring loom.
Oddly, the 1.2's don't suffer from it.

It can cause misfires and cutting out particularly over bumps that disturb the loom.

The wire in question seems to be some sort of common wire (earth?) that appears to be shared with the coil and injectors as the problem seems to manifest it's self in these two systems, so it's the loom to the top end of the engine.

Good news is the problem have been found and fixes have been made, Superste finaly nailed it down here
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/420817-injector-problem-code-p0202-cyl-2-injector.html

There's plenty of other threads relating to the problem, this one was quite a bun fight!
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/317388-panda-eco-1-1-2010-misfire-fix.html
Click to expand...

Thank you for this will read it all you have all been very helpful..
The car had major engine failure this morning staling at every junction not wanting to start again .. garage brought from now taking it back via a recovery truck so will hopefully find out what was wrong will post when I find out. Myself ..
 
rallycinq said:
I hope they have given you a courtesy car.

D
Click to expand...

As much chance of that as finding pot of gold at the end of rainbow , the recovery truck is stuck in traffic so now coming tomorrow , asked not to use the car anymore so not to cause anymore damage lol
So long walk to work tomorrow .
The dealer slipped up saying they jet wash the engines and this could be the problem hmmmm .. I hold my breath lol ?
 
yorkieme said:
The dealer slipped up saying they jet wash the engines and this could be the problem hmmmm .. I hold my breath lol ?
Click to expand...

Jet washing engines has been a very bad idea for quite a few years now. Disappointing that some 'professionals' still do this.

The electrical connectors are 'waterproof', but are designed to resist normal splashes of water, puddles can be projected up into the engine compartment with some force, but this is still nothing like a jetwash. This may cost them a lot.

Might be worth looking around elsewhere for a replacement and demanding a refund. Meanwhile, sit in their showroom and stay there until a courtesy car appears. Don't be angry or rude, just quietly persistent, or slightly louder if other customers are present.
 
Sounds like it's most probably the jetwashing.

Only other thing that I can think of that might bring on the engine management light like that would be the spark plugs on their way out - that was the case on our 2009 1.1 Eco.
 
Cheguava said:
Sounds like it's most probably the jetwashing.

Only other thing that I can think of that might bring on the engine management light like that would be the spark plugs on their way out - that was the case on our 2009 1.1 Eco.
Click to expand...

The guy who sold me said could be spark plugs .. but can't drive it with out engine dropping power light coming on . But still no error codes hopefully they taking it tonight .
 
Or maybe the cough was the head gasket on its way out. Hence being told to stop using the car. Rusty coolant pipes, pinholed radiator etc etc can lose coolant.

A battery left unused for a long time will seal discharge and the cells get clogged with hard sulphate. A battery that's gone dead flat will often not fully take a charge or if it does a cell can go reverse polarity. There are chargers that can recover an over discharged battery (Optimate) but one in that state is usually best replaced.
 
well its with them now ..
they drove it back and apparently it did not once cut out lol but they plugged in there diagnostics machine and going to keep it til fixed !!!
no sorry .. have a replacement car etc .. going to have a look at motor industry body website and see what rights i have ..
 
Hi there
I have had the same issue with my 4x4 trekking 1.2
I unplugged both cables that connect to the ECU, and the coils and sprayed contact cleaner, let it stand overnight, sprayed it again the following day as it started raining that night, wire brushed the contacts, let it dry , and about 2 years it only happened once, but the previous time i had to switch off and the ignition to get it out of limp mode, then bump started it, that happened over 20 times on my 50 km. Trip, so i was fed up,
And as i said ,it only happened once after that, a cheap and quick fix

Hope this works for you,
Happy Panda-ing
 
yorkieme said:
only seems to happen going up or down a hill ,,
Click to expand...

Sounds a bit like the MAP sensor

Data logging throttle position, O2, air temperature and pressure.

Full throttle should see it go rich and throttle off down hill should show lean as the injectors shut off.

However substitution is often quicker mine is part number 0261230030 Bosch same as a lot a vehicles. I found the same one on a Punto Grande for a fiver
 
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