500 (Classic) Starting problems FIAT 500f

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500 (Classic) Starting problems FIAT 500f

If you have 5.96 on the 20k range then that is 5.96kΩ or 5960Ω (Ω=ohms). So that sounds ok now.:confused:

You said the bought the multimeter from Screwfix Mario is it the little black and blue one made by LAP?[/QUOTE
Yes it is the grey and blue one and I am now not sure if I measure at 20k or 200k scale
 
I'm concerned that you only get less than 11volts at the coil.....this indicates a supply or earthing issue......it should be identical to battery voltage.

It is a little odd as seeing all it is is a wire from the ignition switch, which effectively comes direct from the battery, so you wouldn't expect to be losing 2v. I did some comparison tests on mine at the weekend and was getting 12.72v on both the + and - terminals on the coil and that's on a car that hasn't moved for months but it is trickle charged.
 
It is a little odd as seeing all it is is a wire from the ignition switch, which effectively comes direct from the battery, so you wouldn't expect to be losing 2v. I did some comparison tests on mine at the weekend and was getting 12.72v on both the + and - terminals on the coil and that's on a car that hasn't moved for months but it is trickle charged.

I agree with you there but where could I be losing the 2v in that case?
 
If you have 5.96 on the 20k range then that is 5.96kΩ or 5960Ω (Ω=ohms). So that sounds ok now.:confused:

You said the bought the multimeter from Screwfix Mario is it the little black and blue one made by LAP?[/QUOTE
Yes it is the grey and blue one and I am now not sure if I measure at 20k or 200k scale

Ok so it is a digital multimeter so if you are getting 5.96 on the meter on the 20k range that is 5.96kΩ. So the coil looks good.
 
Major earthing point is on the front bonnet center strut / support.
Black cable ring terminal through bolted
I will look through wiring diagram and update
 
I agree with you there but where could I be losing the 2v in that case?

Ok so take it one step at a time away from the battery.

Measure first at the battery take a note of the voltage reading between the + and - terminals on the battery. Then take a reading from the battery + to somewhere on the chassis, a decent earth point , somewhere like the fuel tank strap bolt.

Then from fuse 30 on the fuse box, there are two red wires. Measure from them to the chassis maybe the bolt holding the fuse box on.

Then the red terminal 30 on the ignition switch to earth.

Then put the red terminal 30 back on and measure on the terminal where the two blue wires are connected. Not the blue wires themselves but the actual spade connector they connect to on the switch measure to earth. (So red lead from meter to the blue wires terminal on the switch, black on the meter to earth on the chassis). You need to switch the ignition switch on to do this one.

Next measure at the coil, take the blue wire off and measure to earth from the blue wire terminal. i.e. Put your red meter lead touching the blue wire and black lead to earth. Then plug it in to the coil and take the measurement again on the coil +. Again ignition switch needs to be on.

Make sure you take an accurate note of all the results on a bit of paper and where they were taken. Then post them up.
 
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Ok so take it one step at a time away from the battery.

Measure first at the battery take a note of the voltage reading between the + and - terminals on the battery. Then take a reading from the battery + to somewhere on the chassis, a decent earth point , somewhere like the fuel tank strap bolt.

Then from fuse 30 on the fuse box, there are two red wires. Measure from them to the chassis maybe the bolt holding the fuse box on.

Then the red terminal 30 on the ignition switch to earth.

Then put the red terminal 30 back on and measure on the terminal where the two blue wires are connected. Not the blue wires themselves but the actual spade connector they connect to on the switch measure to earth. (So red lead from meter to the blue wires terminal on the switch, black on the meter to earth on the chassis). You need to switch the ignition switch on to do this one.

Next measure at the coil, take the blue wire off and measure to earth from the blue wire terminal. i.e. Put your red meter touching the blue wire and black lead to earth. Then plug it in to the coil and take the measurement again on the coil +. Again ignition switch needs to be on.

Make sure you take an accurate note of all the results on a bit of paper and where they were taken. Then post them up.

Ok mate I please follow the steps Tom night and revert
Thanks for everyone's advice
 
Your ohm readings you took on the coil are fine. 5900 ohms should be good, and 3.2 ohms is also fine.

If you have around 9.5-12 volts at the coil that should be enough.
I don't think the problem is the coil.

We are down to basic diagnostics.

Do the following:
1. Disconnect the small wire on the side of the distributor. Connect an ohm meter between the terminal on the distributor and the engine block. With points open you should have an open circuit. With points closed you should read resistance no more than 1/4 ohm. If you do not have this good ground connection through the points, then you may have a bad condenser or dirty or worn point faces.

2. Check with your meter the resistance of the spark wire that goes from the coil tower to the distributor cap center terminal. You should really not see more than 12,000 ohms (12k ohms).

3. Check to make sure the surface of the points are clean and the gap when the points are on the high side of the distributor cam are set correctly.

4. Make sure the distributor rotor turns when you operate the starter motor.

5. Make sure the carbon contact on the inside of the distributor cap is there and is making contact with the rotor.

6. If all of this checks out, then you may have the distributor timing way off.

John
 
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Hey Jjacob thanks for your respons once again
Regarding the next steps you asked me to test i have a question on point 1
When you say disconnect the small cable on dizzy i assume you re only referring to the cable from dizzy to coil only. Should i remove the small cable of the condenser also?
When you also refer to checking resistance for open circuit touching the engine block with the dizzy end is my understanding correct that i shoukd be getting 0 ohms when the ooints open?

Thank you
Mario
 
I feel concerned for you as you are receiving a myriad of requests for works.

Please if i may recommend that the basic diagnostics requested are carried out to trace the low voltage supply that appears at the coil as described by "Vitesse".
A low reading here indicates a poor connection and if this is so - you will have poor current flow (read "power") and the coil will not have sufficient power to generate spark.
Get voltage correct first - then we can all help you move on.

where are you exactly as I live and work in Kent and maybe able to meet up to help?
 
Hello Andrew tha ks very much i agree i have tons to test but not quite sure where to start as i have tested many of the things recommended already and worried i ll start breaking things or de calibrate going into it more
I too want to find the source of low voltage but cant locate the earthing point you mentioned. Ill follow Tony s instructions also
I live in London and the i have the car stored in kings cross. I would be ever grateful if we could meet up and maybe go through this together if that works for you and i am happy to put in the beers :)
 
the earthing point is behind the fuel tank on the bracket where the bonnet stay is mounted. Defo two or three black wires crimped onto a ring terminal bolted here.....thats on a 1970 500L.....
Follow Tonys instructions and get 12+V at coil before considering anything else

There is nothing to be fearful of...just find the source of the poor connection.

I am working in Kings Cross next Wednesday from 12 pm bizarrely if you were about....?
 
Hey Jjacob thanks for your respons once again
Regarding the next steps you asked me to test i have a question on point 1
When you say disconnect the small cable on dizzy i assume you re only referring to the cable from dizzy to coil only. Should i remove the small cable of the condenser also?

No just the small cable from the coil to the distributor.

When you also refer to checking resistance for open circuit touching the engine block with the dizzy end is my understanding correct that i shoukd be getting 0 ohms when the ooints open?

No, you should read open circuit (usually shows "OL" for open lead) or super high resistance like 50 mega ohms. 0 ohms would be a very good connection showing no resistance. We do not want that.

Let me address the lower voltage you are seeing. First I will say that you do not need 12 volts to run an engine. 9.5 volts is fine. Do not forget that ballasted coils run at 9 volts. The voltage could be lower at the coil because of the drain you are putting on the battery trying to start the engine. You could have dirty fuses and contacts in the fuse box on fuses 1 & 2, or the ignition switch could have some resistance in it (not likely for you as you have replaced it). Dirty grounds are also a possibility. But again, 9.5 volts is fine.
If you have 9.5 volts + at the coil while cranking, then the engine should start. I believe the problem is at or in your distributor or a bad high tension lead from the coil to the distributor center terminal.
John
 
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Jjacob Tony and Andrew thanks again for your invaluable contributions
I will take the readings for voltage Tom morning and also the checks jjacob suggested and report back

As side note I have now bought original magnetti condenser and will replace tomorrow
I also bought a new Lucas coil which looks like may not be required but I measured resistance and I get in 200ohm scale 4.8 ohms primary and on 20k ohm it reads 10.6 ohms secondary-based on feedback earlier I assume that is super good but I m contemplating whether to install it anyway or return it at the moment as the other two oils work ok

I have also bought some spare fuses

I ll check the grounding strap by the bonnet tomorrow also and clean it just in case

Andrew I can be at kings cross next wed but need to check on time as 12pm I ll be at work- I ll pm to see if we can organise something

I ll report back tomorrow really want to start this car it s been a long time
 
The Haynes manual shows the specification for the coil for the 499cc engine as:
Resistance between + and - terminals at 20C: 3.2 ohms
Resistance between center terminal and side terminals at 20C: 5000 ohms +/- 100 ohms.
This is why I don't think there is any issues with any of your previous coils.
John
 
The Haynes manual shows the specification for the coil for the 499cc engine as:
Resistance between + and - terminals at 20C: 3.2 ohms
Resistance between center terminal and side terminals at 20C: 5000 ohms +/- 100 ohms.
This is why I don't think there is any issues with any of your previous coils.
John

Hi jjacob thanks
Based on the Haynes readings though the new Lucas coil that reads 10.6k ohms from HT turret to + or - of coil is not a goodcoil? Or am I understand this the wrong way? Same would apply to the original coil which read 7.6knohms at 20k scale?
 
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