Hi, I recently posted a thread asking for help with this problem but am still getting no further.
I have a 65 plate Punto Grande 1.4 dualogic semi auto. The car has only done 21,000 miles.
Approx 3 weeks ago I started noticing a red oil indicator symbol in my speedo clock then a warning on the LCD display saying "Transmission - please check handbook". With this the car had a judder when changing from 1-2nd gear and when the car was in reverse. What seems really odd is that this only seems to happen when the car has warmed up, it seems fine when running from cold???
I thought this may of been the gearbox oil needed changing so I took it to my local garage to get this changed. The oil was fine but I replaced it anyway. The problem still occurred. I took it back to the garage and as a favour they stuck it on a diagnostics machine. This come up with a fault code "P17444 Hydraulic circuit pressure sensor". The mechanic said that it might not be that as Fiats are notorious for having parts called something completely different. He could not find a part called that and no-one seemed to know what it was. He cleared the error code and said that this might clear the fault.

The fault still occurred so I decided to try and take it to a Fiat garage after much discussion on here and getting no where, asking every mechanic going and them not having a clue, or seemed to not want to know.
Unfortunately the Fiat garage could not get me booked in until after Christmas... AAAAAArrrrgghhhhhhh!!

So, a friend of mine said she has a fantastic mechanic. I rang him and went down to get his opinion. Immediately he said it was clutch judder, although he could not understand why it only does it in 1-2nd gear and reversing and only does it when the car is warm. I booked in for an hour with him so he could try to get to the bottom of the problem. He stuck the car on a diagnostics machine... The car now shown no errors. He took the cover off the selespeed to reveal the selespeed fluid oil bottle. This was slightly low, approx 10mm under the lowest level mark. Unfortunately I could not get any fluid that day so ordered some. I was praying that something this simple would be causing this problem.... It didnt. The mechanic after looking at the gearbox said he didnt want to touch it, it looked an absolute nightmare!!

So, here I am with seemingly no one in the world, or at Manchester, that has a clue what is causing this.
When the cover was off the selespeed I did notice what looks to be a very small black pump which looked slightly wet with the selespeed oil,maybe this could be something to do with this????
I genuinely dont think that this is anything serious as the car runs perfectly after it goes into 2nd gear and as I have said only happens when the car has warmed up.
My main concern is getting ripped off for something that might be nothing. I dont mind paying but obviously I dont want someone taking the mick!!

Can anyone or a good Fiat mechanic advise me or may know what this is? I really need help with it.
Any help to get to the bottom of this would be very welcome.

Thanks
Les

Any leak on these systems is a problem. The system has a relatively small amount of fluid in (roughly 0.6ml), so even a small leak will drain the reservoir quite quickly!
The pump you talk about is the electric pump that pressurises the system.
You can usually hear it priming the system when you first open the drivers door.
It is possible that the leak is coming from around the pump seals, but it is more likely that the leak is from the clutch actuator which is the item connected to to the clutch lever disappearing into the bell housing/gearbox. It will have a rubber boot on it. If this is worn, it will allow fluid to get around it and find its way out of the system. This does a lot of work and is favourite for failing/wearing even on relatively low mileage cars.
I would suggest checking this first. As the oil is under a fair bit of pressure in the system, leaks are hard to find as components can look serviceable but will leak fluid anyway!
The only cure for it leaking is a replacement item, they cannot be refurbished or repaired.
The actuator failing can show up as a crunching of gears or a juddering as the actuator is disengaging the clutch. These are set quite carefully in the factory with specific settings for each application. They can be adjusted, but syou are very familiar with the system, this needs to be done by Fiat using their specific diagnostic eqpt!
I would also see if you can visually inspect the clutch plate. On some Fiat gearboxes, you can use a torch and look into the bell housing through holes in the casting. You are looking for either engine oil (leaking engine oil main seal), or gearbox oil (Gearbox main oil seal). If the oil gets onto the clutch friction plate, it can 'bake' onto the surface and cause juddering. The oil effectively becomes a glaze and prevents the friction material doing its job properly.
Effectively, the system is an normal manual gearbox and standard clutch, with an automated clutch and gearchange.
The system is normally topped up using the Tutela oil recommended by Fiat. This is very expensive and other oil can be used but I would not use this unless it is to be completely replaced. In this case a fully synthetic ATF Dexron 3 to the same spec can be used, they should'nt be mixed and you definately shouldn't use semi-synthetic or mineral oil as a substitute.
Hope this helps, if you need the spec, let me know.
Ian

Any leak on these systems is a problem. The system has a relatively small amount of fluid in (roughly 0.6ml), so even a small leak will drain the reservoir quite quickly!
The pump you talk about is the electric pump that pressurises the system.
You can usually hear it priming the system when you first open the drivers door.
It is possible that the leak is coming from around the pump seals, but it is more likely that the leak is from the clutch actuator which is the item connected to to the clutch lever disappearing into the bell housing/gearbox. It will have a rubber boot on it. If this is worn, it will allow fluid to get around it and find its way out of the system. This does a lot of work and is favourite for failing/wearing even on relatively low mileage cars.
I would suggest checking this first. As the oil is under a fair bit of pressure in the system, leaks are hard to find as components can look serviceable but will leak fluid anyway!
The only cure for it leaking is a replacement item, they cannot be refurbished or repaired.
The actuator failing can show up as a crunching of gears or a juddering as the actuator is disengaging the clutch. These are set quite carefully in the factory with specific settings for each application. They can be adjusted, but syou are very familiar with the system, this needs to be done by Fiat using their specific diagnostic eqpt!
I would also see if you can visually inspect the clutch plate. On some Fiat gearboxes, you can use a torch and look into the bell housing through holes in the casting. You are looking for either engine oil (leaking engine oil main seal), or gearbox oil (Gearbox main oil seal). If the oil gets onto the clutch friction plate, it can 'bake' onto the surface and cause juddering. The oil effectively becomes a glaze and prevents the friction material doing its job properly.
Effectively, the system is an normal manual gearbox and standard clutch, with an automated clutch and gearchange.
The system is normally topped up using the Tutela oil recommended by Fiat. This is very expensive and other oil can be used but I would not use this unless it is to be completely replaced. In this case a fully synthetic ATF Dexron 3 to the same spec can be used, they should'nt be mixed and you definately shouldn't use semi-synthetic or mineral oil as a substitute.
Hope this helps, if you need the spec, let me know.
Ian

speedtriple said:

.
The system is normally topped up using the Tutela oil recommended by Fiat. This is very expensive and other oil can be used but I would not use this unless it is to be completely replaced. In this case a fully synthetic ATF Dexron 3 to the same spec can be used, they should'nt be mixed and you definately shouldn't use semi-synthetic or mineral oil as a substitute.
Hope this helps, if you need the spec, let me know.
Ian

Click to expand...

Indeed its topped up using CS Speed fluid. Its fairly cheap, and in the grand scheme of things its cheaper to use the correct oil than some cheaper alternative and cause sheds load of damage

Hi Speedtriple, Thank you so much for your reply, your really seem to be the only person that knows what they are talking about over this problem.

I dont know if you have seen my new post?
The car started working perfectly again for 3 months, now it has started doing it again. It is definitely an intermittent fault, I just dont know what. I took it to Fiat and they wanted £1700 to replace the hydraulic unit as they dont repair them. I cant afford that.
It was 2 days after they looked at it that it started working perfect again... Could they have reset something for it to do this? I would rather just reset the thing every few months and top up the selespeed fluid than lay out £1700.

Are you a mechanic, are you available to take a look at my car.

I'm at the end of my tether with this now... I really need my car as I am semi disabled, I cant afford to buy another car and cant get rid of this while is doing this.

I'd really appreciate any help you can give.

Thank you so much.

Les

Re: Punto Grande Dualogic problem

Any updates on this transmission error...?

I'm having the same problem with my grande punto 2007. I have changed tutela oil, hydraulic pump motor, rubber seals and stuffs. but the problem is still there. now the mechanic guy says to change the accumulator and see.
i could't find any help regarding this error.

guys who owns fiat grande puntos please help. i need to fix this.

my another concern is, can i change my car to fully manual gear system?

Re: Punto Grande Dualogic problem

eranga said:

Any updates on this transmission error...?

I'm having the same problem with my grande punto 2007. I have changed tutela oil, hydraulic pump motor, rubber seals and stuffs. but the problem is still there. now the mechanic guy says to change the accumulator and see.
i could't find any help regarding this error.

guys who owns fiat grande puntos please help. i need to fix this.

my another concern is, can i change my car to fully manual gear system?

Click to expand...

hi,
how is your mechanic diagnosing the faults,? - what error codes, has all the purging cycles, etc,, and recalibration been done correctly ( with Examiner , or MultiECUScan,)

back to basics, does the pump run every time you open the drivers door..??

Charlie

Re: Punto Grande Dualogic problem

pump is working correctly because it has been replaced recently.
i think he has no idea about the fault. he just assuming and requesting us to change the parts and see what will happen.

Re: Punto Grande Dualogic problem

getting feedback from the ECU will save a LOT of time..,
Charlie

Re: Punto Grande Dualogic problem

eranga said:

pump is working correctly because it has been replaced recently.

Click to expand...

Don't assume this. It might not be getting Upto the correct pressure etc.

Is there anyway to check it? Check the pressure. Mechanic assume that accumulator cannot hold the pressure for long time. Thatz why he is asking to change it.

eranga said:

Is there anyway to check it? Check the pressure. Mechanic assume that accumulator cannot hold the pressure for long time. Thatz why he is asking to change it.

Click to expand...

Its all in post 7 - https://www.fiatforum.com/newbie-central/315120-punto-grande-dualogic-proble.html?p=4058230

Sounds like your mechanic doesn't know what he's doing. Take it to someone who is better equipped

The thing is in my country he is the only one who's expert in punto. Unfortunatlly he isn't use to update using internet and all stuffs. Thatz why i want know about these stuffs and guide him what to do to fix this issue.

The best option is to use the above multiECUscan.net software