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Technical Engine rebuilt headache!!

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Technical Engine rebuilt headache!!

kuratage

kuratage

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Joined
Nov 8, 2011
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Location
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Hi all,

I have been silent reader since registered back in 2011.

I have already used search option with anyone who had same problem with me but no one has.

My 2003 1.9 jtd 8v engine is currently under major rebuilt by mechanic due to white smoke and excessive blowby.

He already changed new cylinder block sleeves, main bearings, conrod bearings, piston rings, valve guides, valve stems, gaskets & oil seals. However, the engine still got a blowby after installation. Mechanic suggested that it should not be any blowby at all and he will do compression test.

I really got headache with this car. What should i do to fix this problem? Any suggestion would help.

Ps: already relocated to malaysia
 
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You've gone thru the mill with this one mate, after changing the only things that would normally cause blow by I'm at a loss as how you're gonna fix it, unless you replace the engine.
George
 
Oletimer said:
You've gone thru the mill with this one mate, after changing the only things that would normally cause blow by I'm at a loss as how you're gonna fix it, unless you replace the engine.
George
Click to expand...
Yeah mate. I should replace whole engine at the first place. But actually its kinda hard to find jtds in malaysia
 
Had a spare minute this morning and decided to have a look at shipping costs for an engine to Port Kelang from UK, best I could find was £1400. There are possibly better deals than that but I didn't look too deeply, I was merely interested to see what it would cost that's all.

P/S I've never come across an engine that has caused that much grief, especially after the work that has been done. I can't help feeling that your mechanic is missing something, also, valve guides and valve stems are the same thing, unless I'm mistaken.
The white smoke you describe is normally down to rings or valves leaking, so renewing those would normally cure the fault.
By 'blow-by' what do mean? Give us a detailed run down on the events leading up to the rebuild, it may help one of our learned brethren coming up with a plausible rescue for your problem.
Also, what regularity do you service the car - oil, fuel air filters etc.
I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and think what I'd be looking for and doing to cure it
George
 
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What about just having a head shipped over? That would be a lot cheaper and if you've had the block sleeves & rings done, I don't see how you could have a leak happening below the line of the head gasket unless you've got a cracked or holed piston?
 
[ame]https://youtu.be/0tQIyt7nMlU[/ame]

? prior to engine rebuild

You can see lots of white smoke from dipstick. kinda weird that i didnt see any smoke at start up. But i can smell engine oil burning.

oil & filter changed regularly at 10000km. fuel filter at 30000km. air filter normally at 20000km.

George.
VAT is 46% for autoparts. plus there will be extra charges on domestic postage as large item.

widemouthfrog.
mechanic would suggest to change piston but i insisted to do compression test first. Let see how it goes after that. i will ask him to check any cracks on the head & block.
 
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Previously i drove stilo jtd when studying in UK and the engine was rock solid.
So why i decided to buy that multipla and im the third owner. Previous owner mentioned that he did engine rebuilt before. Seems he was hiding bad points after rebuild. My mistake is i didnt inspect the car thoroughly.

Engine maintenance is the key. If the owner does not care abt his/her car, there always will be problem in future.
 
White smoke is usually a result of low compression, or inoperative glow plugs when cold. White smoke is partially atomised fuel that has passed through the engine into the exhaust and emits as a vapour.

I'm assuming that your 'blow-by' is pressurisation of the crankcase. This can occur due to piston rings not sealing, cracks in the bore, head gasket leak, or a cracked head.
With new cylinder liners and piston rings, there should be no issue there. Valve guides and new valves are not the issue. If a valve does not seal it will reduce compression, but leakage will be into the intake or exhaust, not the crankcase.

My guess is a cracked head. From overheating perhaps. Head need to be crack tested. This is done by specialists here in UK, I'd expect something similar in Malaysia.

PS: Have you seen this? https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/452287-multipla-clear-out.html
 
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The funny thing is i never encounter engine overheat. Highest i would get was 4 bar while driving in traffic jam with hot malaysian weather.

My mechanic said excessive pressurize gas built up inside rocker cover. When the hose pipe from chamber block to rocker cover was removed, the pressure became stable and back to as usual operating pressure.

Could it be faulty vacuum pump?? I have read somewhere which faulty vacuum pump will add more pressure into crankcase.

Attach is article about faulty vacuum pump.


Screenshot_20170724-225906.png
 
Two queries about the above:

Firstly, I don't know what the 'chamber block' is, so don't understand what the hose connects. If this is the breather hose from top of the engine to the air intake, it is possible that it is blocked. Some crankcase pressure is normal, and there is usually a breather pipe to the air intake. This can become blocked, preventing the normal crankcase pressure from escaping.

Vac pump is a strange one. The article is not clear how this happens, and the rest of the article is vague. Look at the vac pump and see where it expels its air. It may go to atmosphere, or it might go to the engine block or rocker cover, but I see no reason why it should. It cannot create much pressure though, it just sucks at the brake booster, so does not create much pressure. Could be a red herring, but worth just looking at it.

Your original post refers to excessive blow-by. Only the cylinder pressure is really high enough to create this, so combustion pressure is escaping. Got to find a leak, possibly a crack in head or block. Engine may not overheat now, but a previous episode may have damaged the head, without harming the coolant passages. White smoke is lack of compression pressure, not caused by vac pump pressurising the crankcase.
 
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portland_bill said:
Two queries about the above:

Firstly, I don't know what the 'chamber block' is, so don't understand what the hose connects. If this is the breather hose from top of the engine to the air intake, it is possible that it is blocked. Some crankcase pressure is normal, and there is usually a breather pipe to the air intake. This can become blocked, preventing the normal crankcase pressure from escaping.

Vac pump is a strange one. The article is not clear how this happens, and the rest of the article is vague. Look at the vac pump and see where it expels its air. It may go to atmosphere, or it might go to the engine block or rocker cover, but I see no reason why it should. It cannot create much pressure though, it just sucks at the brake booster, so does not create much pressure. Could be a red herring, but worth just looking at it.

Your original post refers to excessive blow-by. Only the cylinder pressure is really high enough to create this, so combustion pressure is escaping. Got to find a leak, possibly a crack in head or block. Engine may not overheat now, but a previous episode may have damaged the head, without harming the coolant passages. White smoke is lack of compression pressure, not caused by vac pump pressurising the crankcase.
Click to expand...
Yup. mechanic said vac pump is nothing to do with increased crankcase pressure. Checked head and no crack found.

I tried to remove breather pipe from cylinder block as in attached photo and the pressure seems ok. Put the pipe back into rocker cover
..wait a few mins. I then heard hissing sound inside rocker cover.

Could be the rocker cover melted inside and blocked the air from escaping?
 

Attachments

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But where does the other end go?
The crankcase pressure has to be vented. On a normally aspirated engine it goes to the inlet manifold, or air cleaner. On a turbo, it has to go somewhere on the 'suck' side of the turbo. Find that and check it is clear at that end.

There should be some pressure in the rocker cover. It is difficult for anyone not actually there to know whether what you are experiencing is normal or excessive. However, you also complain of white smoke, which is often a result of low compression.

White smoke can also occur on startup if the glowplugs don't work. So is the white smoke there only at startup, or also when warm?

Has a compression test or cylinder leakage test been done?

If crankcase pressure is excessive, only way for this is compression pressure is escaping into the crankcase. That will be past the pistons, past the head gasket, or through a crack in head or block. I don't think the forum can help further until the man with the engine has checked all of these. One of them is the problem.
 
Hi..happy new year.
The compression test has been done and 2 of cylinders had some leakage.

As repair cost gone up, i decided to get used original piston set from ebay uk. Finally no more blowby problem. However, i noticed the fuel consumption abit high.
Maybe map or maf sensor already kaput?
 
Mmmm. Unit conversion headaches. I should have seen that one coming :D

Google tells me that 1km/l = 2.825mpg (imperial gallons, not US gallons)

So, 17km/l = 48mpg. If your "motorway" speeds are around 70mph (112kmh) then I'd say that's (very) good consumption. Very few people get more than 50mpg from a Multipla with motorway driving.
 
Oh yeah :) the problem is my motorway speed was limited to 90kmh due to new pistons.

I will try to clean map and maf sensor with contact cleaner first. See how it goes.
 
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