Technical Clutch biting point , yes again

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Technical Clutch biting point , yes again

jackwhoo

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A friend had replaced his clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder. 2004 1.9 jtd.
Following the work selecting any gear very difficult. Baulking into all forward gears grinding trying to select reverse.
Lots and lots of bleeding bleeding from both bleed points , still the same.
I then bled it through at LOW pressure using Gibson easeee bleed.
Harrah, gear selection possible but... Bite point very very close to floor.
Never mind I say at least you can drive it again , see how you get on.

It didn't go well , about 100 miles later the gear selection problems were back.
The above happened about two weeks ago.

Got to look at it again today and will give the short version.
Measured master cylinder push rod movement from pedal up to pedal fully down it was around 21mm(remember this is a brand new part)
Measured the push rod movement of old master cylinder , result 33mm. Measured on my multipla 33mm.

Ok so found a big problem.

Pulled out new master cylinder piston , easy from inside drivers foot well,
Problem FOUND wrong return spring inside master cylinder. The spring coils were too close together and only allowing 21mm compression before closing up completely.
The faulty spring hadn't been finished properly at one end just cut off leaving a sharp point. It also looked like it has been exposed to the elements previously.
Conclusion not the spring it left the factory with!!!

Spring from old master cylinder fitted to car everything reassembled.

Ta da clutch works fine , all gears engage beautifully , bite point well up from floor (actually better than mine now grrr)

So if anyone else having similar gear engagement / bite point problems measure how far mc push rod travels into MC from pedal up to pedal fully down it should be about 33mm

If you buy a new MC check its travel before fitting or using the spring and piston.
 
Thank you George,


I was feeling a bit of a burke for that post because no one had commented.


Now feel that it was worth it.


Cheers Jack.
 
Hi Jack

I have 2008 Multipla with the same problem

Not a mechanic so some silly questions for you to help me out

Where is the clutch master cylinder?
Where is the clutch slave cylinder

Are there cables on the multipla clutch

Thanks in advance Ian
 
Hi Jack

I have 2008 Multipla with the same problem

Not a mechanic so some silly questions for you to help me out

Where is the clutch master cylinder?
Where is the clutch slave cylinder

Are there cables on the multipla clutch

Thanks in advance Ian
Hello,
If your multipla is right hand drive then it has a hydraulic clutch system.
The master cylinder is bolted to bulkhead directly in front of clutch pedal. You can see part of master cylinder in drivers foot well , there is a push rod connected to clutch pedal that goes through a rubber dust cover into the master cylinder (made out of black plastic)
The clutch slave cylinder is below the battery tray in engine compartment. It can be seen by removing air filter box.

Is your multipla petrol or diesel?
What is total mileage?
 
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Brilliant

One garage (they fitted a new dual mass clutch) told me they greased the cables after it was still not right

Occasionally it feels like it is not opening the clutch properly as it will not come out of gear or if it is out it won't go in till you switch off the engine

Right hand drive

Diesel 1.9

About 45,000 had it since 09

New dual mass clutch fitted about 2yrs ago

Still having problems dis engaging gears normally when you approach lights just cannot get it out

Been back to garage and they said they greased the cables?? and clutch is fine

Thanks for your interest and help

Ian
 
Brilliant

One garage (they fitted a new dual mass clutch) told me they greased the cables after it was still not right

Occasionally it feels like it is not opening the clutch properly as it will not come out of gear or if it is out it won't go in till you switch off the engine

Right hand drive

Diesel 1.9

About 45,000 had it since 09

New dual mass clutch fitted about 2yrs ago

Still having problems dis engaging gears normally when you approach lights just cannot get it out

Been back to garage and they said they greased the cables?? and clutch is fine

Thanks for your interest and help

Ian
It has gear change cables don't yell at them till you find out if that's cables they greased.
Actually don't yell at them at all it won't get you anywhere.

Can you select reverse without grinding?
 
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Never yelled at them I know that don't get you anywhere been in the service industry for 50yrs so know how the public treat you when things dont' go to there liking

Trying to solve the problem not apportion blame

Can get all gears without crunching all the time

Can get all gears with the engine off

Can get all gears with the engine running no crunching

It only happens now and again but catches you out

Wife says it is more prone to doing it on hot days ????????

Thanks for your patience

Ian
 
Mine can do the same and I feel your wife is correct about hot days.

If no crunching going into reverse is a good sign clutch is releasing fully.
It may be worth asking your garage to bleed the clutch line at the bleed point on the bulkhead then the bleed point on the clutch slave cylinder.
The bleed point on bulkhead is hidden and easy to miss if you don't know its there.


My multi is susceptible to the problem you have particularly if engine braking used in first or second .

I have a very dodgy engine mount gearbox side so wonder if the movement of engine causes excess movement in the gear shift cables causing the problem.

My multi has 131000
miles on clock.


Dribbling air line oil(3in 1 oil would work) down the shift cables from gear change lever end improved my situation greatly.
I did this using a syringe from spare printer ink refill kit. The gear lever gaiter pulls up easily.
Aiming the drops of oil takes some patience.

If your gear lever moves freely it is probably OK.

Putting clutch pedal all the way down before fully releasing the accelerator pedal , so the wheels don't drive the engine) in low gears stops mine sticking in gear. Or if it does stick , keep clutch down rev engine try again.
 
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Thanks Jack

Will get all points checked

Ian
Thanks Ian , please let us know what transpires.
I thought a little more about your problem and am thinking could well be some air in clutch fluid.
 
Hi Jack

You may be right as this has been ongoing before the new clutch was fitted

I would have thought if it was a faulty seal in one of the cylinders it would have failed by now

Will let you know when I find out

Thanks for you interest and help

Ian
 
Hi Jack

Been a while but finally got both master and slave bled and no difference

Ian
 
Hi Jack

Been a while but finally got both master and slave bled and no difference

Ian
Hello Ian,
You have sensibly tried the cheap option first, sorry to hear it didn't fix problem.

Was a new dual mass flywheel fitted at the same time the new clutch was fitted?

Jack
 
Well now not being a mechanic I don't know

It cost £400+ and weighed a lot more than any clutch i have seen
It came in 2 boxes
Ian
 
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Well now not being a mechanic I don't know

It cost £400+ and weighed a lot more than any clutch i have seen
It came in 2 boxes
Ian
Likely to have been the dual mass flywheel and the clutch kit in that case.
Do you remember what make it all was?

Unfortunately it sounds like the new flywheel or new clutch is failing.

I think mine is flywheel because if I stall or use engine braking then I get the same symptoms as you.
If I then accelerate hard from stationary the problem improves greatly.

I'm putting off fitting new flywheel and clutch. adapted my driving style , don't let the drive train shunt while changing gear ,avoid engine braking. This is working for me for now.

I think it was oldtimer (George) who fitted a new dual mass flywheel and clutch , the flywheel was faulty brand new and caused him all sorts of grief before sorting out the problem.
Perhaps ask him and or look up his posts.
Jack
 
Thanks to george for reply via E-mail

To date I have had a new slave cylinder fitted old one does not have bleed nipple New one does ????

To date gears seem easier wife says she found that as well so lets wait and see not holding my breath

Thanks for all your help

Ian

Ps will keep you updated
 
Thanks to george for reply via E-mail

To date I have had a new slave cylinder fitted old one does not have bleed nipple New one does ????

To date gears seem easier wife says she found that as well so lets wait and see not holding my breath

Thanks for all your help

Ian

Ps will keep you updated
Sorry for delay , glad to hear George has emailed you and things appear better for you.
Jack
 
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