Hi there... Multi has been quite dead in power lately.
Taking off and particularly when cold it's real easy to stall the engine...I've noticed it's after getting lumpy aswell just over the 2000rpm mark..lumpy enough in that you can feel the vibration even at 60mph till you get past that Rev range.
It bombs along fine in the motorway..80 mph no prob up hills etc.

Anyway decided this eve to have a poke round see if any of the hoses were loose etc around turbo/inter cooler actuator etc and all seemed fine.
Took off the actuator hose, ran the engine to see if there was much vacuum...there's a bit not a whole heap but definitely some(only checked at idle didn't have anyone to rev engine)
Anyway decided to leave vac hose off just to see what engine would be like without turbo... And there was no difference.
Does this plunger only operate the wastegate?( therefore I was actually running at full boost with the hose off?)

Put hose back on and got the missus to start the engine while I kept an eye on turbo actuator and the plunger moved nice and promptly when she started it.

Any ideas...
Marty.

Hi Marty. The vacuum hose only operates the vanes in the variable geometry bit of the turbocharger. It doesn't do anything with a 'wastegate'.

If the plunger on the turbo actuator moves when the pipework is connected, then it sounds as though all is in order there. Can you manually move the plunger rod and if you do, is the travel any greater than you see when it's operated by vacuum?

Can you hear the turbo spooling up? The turbo will still boost even if the actuator doesn't manage to move the VGT vanes. The boost 'profile' will be out of kilter though. Getting any error codes on ECUScan?

Your description of the engine as 'lumpy' doesn't sound like a turbo problem to me; more of a fuelling issue. A poorly turbo will affect all cylinders equally, so I wouldn't think it would make an engine run unevenly. How many miles has the engine done? Any little pools of diesel around any of the injectors?

Cheers..
I can't hear turbo spooling up as you say..never really could either.
Access is poor to that plunger and I couldn't really shift it so hard to tell..but it's moving about 15mm or so.

I was thinking along the fuel starvation lines myself until this evening when I realised having that hose disconnected didn't decrease performance.
Should it run the same with/without that hose attached?(I'm just trying to prove/disprove turbo functionality)
Is there anything on fiat ecu scan that will tell me if turbo is operating ok?
Marty.

Yes. One of the things it measures is boost pressure. You can even set it up on a laptop on the passenger seat, with the cable connected to the OBD port. It will then record things like boost pressure in real time; you can save (log) the data to a file so that you can look at it later in something like Excel. If you feel the need to get that anal, of course....

If you can't hear the turbo spooling up at all, then it would be worth taking a while to disconnect the inlet hose (the big one that goes from the airbox to the air inlet on the centre NS of the turbo), then stick your finger in - engine cold! - and see if you can spin the turbo impeller. It should spin very freely.

Cheers Widemouth some food for thought there...Ive never tinkered with a turbo...they were only on "proper" cars when i was young lad!!
Just off the motorway now...cruised along no bother at 80Mph but that hesitation is still there @ ~220RPM.

Incidentally it had been running poor a few months ago and a change of fuel filter made a big difference at the time...(i had only done an oil/oil filter change on previous service)
I ran it quite low on fuel last week so maybe picked up some crap from the tank?
I might stick a new air filter in it today as thats been in there quite a while now aswell and see if that improves anything first.
I tried the obvious MAF stuff and no difference...EGR is blanked about 40K miles ago too(with a proper plate)

Ill have to find which laptop the ECUscan is on so tonight!!
Been a while since i had to fire up either a laptop or ecuscan!
Cheers,
Marty.

Stuck in a new air filter @ lunch there...no difference...thought there would be some difference...it must have 40K miles on it!!...skimped on replacing it on a few occasions.
Ill try ecu scan on it later if i can find all my leads etc.
Looking like its fuel related... injectors maybe?
Marty.

What's the mileage?

139K Miles.....

Carried out a leak-off test on the injectors?

I haven't.
I thought that test would only tell me if an injector is not holding pressure and passing into the cylinders when at rest?... Would it provide any insight into injector performance do you think?
Marty.

If you get one injector filling its pot a damn sight faster than all the others, it's a sure sign that it's poorly. The guy that I spoke to who reconditions them said that around 120k miles is about the average life expectancy of the Bosch injectors in the JTD before they need a recon, so yours have done ok.

I expect you've read all the blurb on here about injectors. Check the part number on the top of the injector, but if it's 0445110119 then any injectors from a 105, 110 or 115 will replace it OK and they don't have to be recoded to the ECU. As long as you can get them out of the head, replacement is fairly simple.

Cheers
Yeah it would do no harm to do that test anyway.
I had 2 injectors out already... One was a nightmare.. Stuck in the head the other walked out, crush washers were passing on them and dribbling tarry gunk over the head at the time.
I'll have a look at the number on them and see if they match what you posted... IIRC it's easy code if necessary via fiatecuscan.
I did consider replacing them many miles ago as I've always had a rough spot around 1700rpm that I've never gotten to the bottom of but they seemed really expensive to replace or overhaul.
Marty.

Yes, they are. I just passed on a brand new (not recon) set on ebay - hesitated, they were gone :bang: - but to replace all four with new or recon will cost about as much as a roundnose is worth!

Yeah that's the thing.. They're crazy expensive you'd want to be certain they were knackered before replacing.
You could buy a used set that would set you back a nice few quid and you wouldn't necessarily know they are better or worse that what you've got.
Marty.

Exactly. Having them properly tested on a flow rig costs around £30-40 per injector. That's not going to fix anything, just tell you if they're knackered. Depending on what/how much then needs replacing on them, I was quoted an additional £90-110 per injector for the recon work and matching the flows as a set.

I'll keep my eyes open for a set from a low mileage crashed car maybe. Probably cheapest option.
In the meantime I'll get some tubing and bottles and do an injector leak test.
Marty

Driving home today it did a massive backfire as I was slowing down to go over a speed bump...loads of smoke out the back...expected it to be dead but it was still running absolutely as normal...carried on driving home and parked up...
Confused now
Marty.

martyc5674 said:

Driving home today it did a massive backfire as I was slowing down to go over a speed bump...loads of smoke out the back...expected it to be dead but it was still running absolutely as normal...carried on driving home and parked up...
Confused now
Marty.

Click to expand...

Hi, had the FES / MES connected yet..??

backfire sounds like timing / or seriously overfuelling,

sometimes an oxygen leak into exhaust header too

that's all general info - NOT JTD specific,

Charlie 110 JTD - Oxford

Since last post I checked timing belt in case it had jumped..timing marks all lined up perfect so put it back together and drove it about 10 miles...backfired another 2 times...not as dramatic but did it all the same.


#Hooked up Fiat ecuscan there...has a glow plug control board error alright but that's it... was 2 aswell related to air flow but ive seen them before when disconnecting MAF(which I did the other day)


Mapped turbo pressure and fuel pressure versus required and they both tracked very well.
Its either injectors or a sticky valve I reckon...its a bone shaker now around 1700RPM...worried for my engine mounts!!
Any quick/clever way of testing or cleaning injectors?
Marty

TBH - Stilo section should have most relevant info ,
Charlie