What is it about Italian and French car manufacturers that can come up with such great ideas but totally lack in quality and execution. I always lived by the mantra of ONLY buy Japanese cars but when my wife and I had two unexpected late in life arrivals (bringing the family tally to 4 kids) I needed people carriers. Initially I had a Toyota Previa. What a car great in every respect EXCEPT consumption. So dumped that and decided to get the wife and I an MPV each. Driving around one day I saw this truly ugly car with a mono-brow and three people up front + 3 seats in the back. What A cool idea I thought so set about getting one for my wife whilst I purchased a Chrysler Grand Voyager. Well my biggest regret is not doing more research and getting the Honda FR-V instead.

Since buying the Multipla in 2008 on 59K I have replaced

Front Springs (2 weeks after getting the car she just sat down like a petulant dog)
Crank pulley 4 times
Lower arm(s) twice - (today being the second time)
MAF
EGR
Thermosat housing and temp sender
ARB Bushes
Drop links twice
Constantly trying to stop the damn sun roofs leaking
Changed the aerial cable due to breaks (how that happened I will never know)
Glowplugs (that was a fun job)
Now need to do the DMF and clutch
Not forgetting having to do the damn clutch hydraulics

The car is only on 98K. So all the above in just under 40K and 6 years of ownership

Lets compare

Chrysler Grand Voyager 2000 model 2.5TD LE Spec bought 3 days after the multipla with 40K on the clock sold 15 Jan this year on eBay with 160K on the clock

Work done

Water pump
Service every 6K

That's it

Prior to the Voyager we had a Nissan Micra and A Nissan Primera. Micra was run to 172K and the Primera to 264K

Changed Alternator on the Primera
Did bugger all to the Micra other than service

Net result - Italian cars are SH*TE

I have no doubt that now FIAT own Chrysler they too will start to inherit the wonderful reliability record of Fix It Again Tony

I've had loads of Fiats, and loved all of them, but then I'm a tinkerer so turn a blind eye to all the continuous maintenance....
Really, I love them as they are FUN and have SOUL, but thats my opinion.
Whats interesting is that you've still got the multi after 6 years....why?
BTW, I've bought about 4 diesel multis so far at @65 k mileage, at this mileage they automatically disintegrate.... they all needed a lot of maintenance at this point, maybe all the previous tight owners knew this...new clutches, drop links, suspension arms, ARB bushes.....
Once done they soldier on lovely, drop link here, handbrake cable there...
However no one can argue with your logic, I just cant believe your chrysler needed so little maintenance, wheres the fun in that? nervous laugh.
Saying all that and admitting you have a point, if they were still making multis, I would buy another one, no question, however as they have stopped makin em, and as I'm getting older and am getting sick of lying on my back getting greasy, my next car will probably be a VW.......

Consider yourself lucky, my brothers Chrysler Grand Voyager was nothing but trouble and I mean the expensive kind! While my Alfa at the time was trouble free.
MultiplaAbarth is right though, they get to a point in time or age where things are worn out. Replace these and a lot of the time they solider on for for ages.
I have seen many of my Fiat driving mates move to the "better marques" to have a trouble free life and get burned - one bought a C220D Merc and ended up putting more than he paid for it into the gearbox, cats, EGR, suspension etc etc He now drives a 1.3 Multijet Punto and loves it.
Go on the forums and see the trouble people are having with their Audis, VWs not to mention Renault or Citroen.
As for Japanese stuff, My wifes Navara needed an engine rebuild after 40k miles, rear axle after 55k miles, now at 63k miles, steering is loose, AC gone, windows weak, problems with locks, radio etc etc.
My only conclusion is luck of the draw.
Although my father in laws corolla has never had a problem in 8 years, I'm hoping something will go wrong soon. He can get very smug when I'm lying under whatever italian thing I happen to be driving. Toyota drivers so swear by them. But I'd rather drive a Fiat/Alfa with a bit of style and soul and have to fix niggly problems every now and then and not have to drive a Toyota.

MultiplaAbarth said:

Whats interesting is that you've still got the multi after 6 years....why?

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Because the wife loves the bloody thing. Having said that I replaced the Voyager with a SEAT Alhambra which she is now driving and has relegated me to driving the Multi. It won't hang around much longer. I may get a second Alhambra.

DiamonDave. My Voyager was the 96-2000 model that used the old gear driven camshaft 8V OHV engine also found in London Taxi's, Range Rovers, Ford Scorpios and many other cars. An absolutely amazing engine. Not refined, noisy but super strong. Originally designed in the 1950's as a Marine engine and was in constant production till the early 2000's. I suspect perhaps your brother had the newer variant of Voyager which is full of electrical gremlins.

DiamondDave said:

Although my father in laws corolla has never had a problem in 8 years, I'm hoping something will go wrong soon. He can get very smug when I'm lying under whatever italian thing I happen to be driving.

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Lol ?

The only japanese car I've driven in recent memory is a Nissan GTR, but for some reason this was quite fun, wonder how reliable they are.....

I have an 05 face lift with 140k miles. I think you have been lucky with your Multipla. Suspension wise I have a near side track rod end thats the only original part left.Clutch, Alternator, handbrake cables, fuel pipes, condenser, a/c pipe, boot switch,4 shox and all coil springs, rear sub frame bushes all four, trailing arms and now trailing arm bearings, belt tensioner, aux belt, the list goes on and on. Should have bought a Honda FRV. I won't even look at my file any more as it just scares me! In 5000 miles I will have done 100,000 miles so maybe then I will sit down and add it all up. Cars nowadays are only really designed to last 60,000 miles as that gets them past the warranty stage. I think that with the mileage I do that costs will add up as parts go beyond what they are deigned for. In all the time( 6.5 years) the vehicle has never failed to start or broke down. The only time it has failed is when I have broke something or waiting for parts. I change the oil every 10kmiles and fix it when it breaks. Most people can't afford a new car or £300 per month on finance for 5 years.
Fix It Again Tomorrow!!!!!!!! They are poo at this age and mileage and they will break……….

How the hell do you break springs?
I've been driving this format since the first Tipo came out and through every stage up to my current Multipla and have never broken a spring or heard of one breaking until I joined this Forum.
Is it the amount of salt they put on the roads in the winter?

My ten year old Punto is fairly impressive for such a complicated car compared to my other cars. Mainly city driving since new, 216,000km and it still has the original clutch (with a new master cylinder), original braking system apart from a change of the front pads. One wheel bearing was replaced for a minor noise. Original suspension etc etc etc. Almost no rust under the car. My father in law had the car before me and i have had it 3 years and done more or less nothing to it until recently. .

Since Christmas because the car is now ten years old and likely to need work, I have changed the alternator bearings, brushes, slip rings, done the timing, changed the water pump and tensioner, thermostat, the A/C clutch bearing, and cleaned the hydraulic lifters - even refitted the original cam housing seal and no oil leaks. There are no oil leaks at all on the engine. I had a headlight bulb go a few months ago and a side light went yesterday. A few years back I changed a number plate light. The aeriel was broken off so replaced that. I replaced all the heater lights which makes it look fairly flash at night - been dark since i had it. I got a set of new fiat mud flaps for the front for about 10 pounds which look very good. Drivers sun visor replaced plus a spare for a total of 26 pounds. New cheapo jack. I suppose it begins to add up.......

Touch wood its been pretty good so far.

My current multi is an 01 jtd sx. Has currently covered 178.5k. Has had two jack points on drivers side welded, rear trailing arm bushes, new front arm due to worn balljoint, new front spring, new discs and pads and a service in the last year. Due to be fitted tomorrow is a new crank pulley. I think it's a great car, full of niggles like the fan motor only works at position 4 and the rear wash wipe doesn't work anymore but I honestly don't want to have to change it for anything else! My first 2001 jtd elx died of cambelt failure on the way to get it changed, bent 5 valves, broke two valve guides and collets. Ended up stripping it and scrapping the body as it was going to cost too much to fix!

Funny how things turn out. I started this thread yesterday and today I bought 2006 Toyota Previa 2.0 Diesel. One owner 71k on the clock.

Guess what's going on eBay

glowplug said:

Guess what's going on eBay

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The Wife?

What's the starting bid?

If I wasn't worried about the negative feedback I would have put her up years ago.

So it humbles me to report that fate indeed as a sense of humour and irony.
I went to collect the Previa today, signed forms, exchanged smiles and handshakes and set on my way. Once on the A3 heading towards Guildford I popped it into 5th only to be greeted with a high pitch rev from the engine. Thinking I had not put it in properly I did it again only this time I realised that in fact the car was jumping out of gear. Pulled over, called the dealer who said to bring it back. By the time I got there he had already researched the prob on his laptop and called his local mechanic buddy and to his credit admitted that it seemed to be a common problem and gave be a full no quibble refund.

Seems like the Multi is hanging around for a short while longer.

Thanks for that !!!! That has made me laugh!!!!!!!

....and then home for a large slice of humble pie?

That's the voodoo power of the Multipla. Others have the Third Eye; the Multipla has the Third Seat :devil:

glowplug said:

:By the time I got there he had already researched the prob on his laptop and called his local mechanic buddy and to his credit admitted that it seemed to be a common problem and gave be a full no quibble refund.

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You were lucky to have a good dealer, who were they? I had less luck with Canfield Garage in Essex. Bought a Dodge Journey (became the Fiat Fremont) that like yours displayed a gearbox fault on the way home. Canfield did not want to know. I took them to the small claims court and won. Got the purchase price plus costs and expenses back, but it took nearly a year.

Yes indeed finding an honest dealer is rare and I truly believe this guy had no idea the car had the fault. He got it from a local Audi dealer and being so close hadn't had the opportunity to get it into 5th.

Am happy to give them a positive punt.


Stoneleigh Carriage Company

If I'm not mistaken, that Grand Voyager was build in Austria, and uses an Italian VM diesel engine....notorious unreliable.

You are misinformed and misguided and like many possibly regurgitating second hand info with no direct experience. When someone has a problem everyone hears about it but when people are happy they tend to keep it to themselves. So going by the results of review feedback on the net is no yardstick by which to measure reliability. It is fair to say that the same goes regarding comments on the Multi, HOWEVER the owner of this very FORUM has painted a VERY bleak picture of the multi on the WHATCAR portal?????????????????????

Yes the engine is the VM425 8V OHV engine with 4 independent heads. Yes the car itself was made in GRAZ Austria bit there was nothing unreliable about it. There are thousands of examples with well over 200K on the clock. The ONLY things that were known on the car were

1. The possibility of the heads cracking if the car suffered from overheating - I don't know of a single diesel this would not happen to
2. The number 1 Injector pulse sensor going - This is a Bosch injector used in many other cars and suffers the same issue in ALL
3. A sweat from the rear crankshaft seal

What's more the car is EXTREMELY easy to work on. It is big and American and there is space everywhere.

Now I cannot say that no-one has problems with these cars but I certainly had none but perhaps that is down to maintenance. However once again to draw the direct comparison the Multi gets the EXACT same level of care that the Voyager did and yet gives piles more problems. So at the end of the day define unreliability ????????

So now you're saying it is in fact a reliable car..??
I don't get it...??