Technical Multipla JTD 1.9 Clutch Replacement (in progress...)

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Technical Multipla JTD 1.9 Clutch Replacement (in progress...)

MarkX

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Hi there Folks,

A quick post before I get ready for work tomoz. I'm in the middle of a Multipla 1.9 JTD clutch replacement, following:

Notes for Novices by SillyBilly

and

https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/190204-diy-guide-clutch-replacement.html by bikes-for-me

also just discovered:

https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/325710-clutch-replacement-additional-notes.html by bplee459
(lifting eye in the slave cylinder bolts -brilliant!)


You can follow my previous Multipla clutch history on threads:

https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/327242-fiat-multipla-jtd-unable-gear-change.html

and then (inevitably)...

https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/335610-fiat-multipla-clutch-broken.html

My Multipla has been sitting forlorn outside my house for the last 3 months with - I assume - a broken clutch. No money up till now to fix it. The cheapest local garage quoted me £240 labour to do the clutch (which is reasonable) but that didn't include a tow to the garage (£30) so at least £270 + parts for the repair, which if the DMF needs doing = £270 + Clutch kit £70 + DMF £250 = £600 approx. AND THEN... it has to be MOT'd, and who knows what they'll find. So I thought there's some good instructions on the Fiat Forum website, why don't I at least take the thing to bits and have a look at the clutch damage and replace it if I can, possibly leave the DMF till later, get the ugly bug moving again, take it for an MOT and decide from there whether to keep or scrap. I'd hate to spend £600 on a full clutch repair and then find at the MOT it's not worth keeping and I've wasted 600 quid. If I do the repair myself minus the DMF the worst I'll have to fork out I reckon is about £125 = clutch kit + tools and bits and bobs.

I am repairing it on a normal street with quite a camber ie. drops down towards the gutter, which might be useful when manoeuvring the bellhousing out? Will find out. Any thoughts folks? err. the car is level on one axle stand at the mo' in case you were wondering.

I started this weekend and I'm up to about Page 14 in Notes for Novices. Most of the engine bay stuff is done. The air intake bolts are seized solid, it's still attached. Today I had a helluva job getting the front exhaust off, the two bolts connecting to the middle box came out ok but were VERY tight, one of the three bolts at the front came off nice and easy without damage, but the other two refused to budge. Absolutely seized solid. Think I read on Notes for Novices that he/she mangled these nuts -so did !

My method was to junior hacksaw vertically through the flanged? nuts keeping close to the bolt, until I hit the exhaust flange, chisel away the loose piece, and then whack the remainder of the nut anticlockwise (to undo obviously) with a big screwdriver and hammer. Which worked, what a relief. However, a warning to anyone trying this method, I may have damaged the bolt threads a bit, but I thought **** it, if I cant get the exhaust off I'm snookered, I can always get fresh exhaust bolts put on at a later date. But very satisfying to overcome the difficulty and complete this step, I'm sure you know the feeling.

If I can give one piece of advice, which I didn't follow... if you're going to junior hacksaw something really difficult, don't be a tight wad like me and use a 10 year old saw with a 10 year old knackered blade. Before the event Today I was actually in Homebase looking at a pack of hardened steel junior hacksaw blades going "Hmmm... two pounds 99 pence", no I'll be fine !!!
And don't buy a £1 Junior Hacksaw with 2 Spare Blades from Poundland which wouldn't hacksaw though a bar of melted chocolate. I'm sure that with the knackered old saw blade I used it didn't actually cut through the exhaust nut, I just generated so much friction running it back and forth it melted the steel !!

Well that's enough for now. I'm aching all over -do mechanics do this sort of thing EVERY working day???

Hope to keep you posted on progress. Hope to complete Part 2 this coming weekend. Got my 2 by 3 piece of timber from Homebase, luggage straps and god knows what else for the bellhousing lowering operation. Oooh errr...

Wish me luck.

Mark X
 
Easy way to remove air intake is to forget the Phillips acres and go for the 2 x 10mm bolts through the slam panel
Should be painted same colour as the car
Prob be a good idea to replace the drop links at the same time as it's easier to take them off to manipulate subframe
 
Cheers Ben, I will look into the drop links and SAAB bushes. Tried the painted bolts at the front -no joy, just rounded the corners of the bolt heads. Also whacked 'em with a chisel to turn -still no joy. Forgot that when working on old cars, 99% of the work is done in 99% of the time, and one bolt (or two in my case) takes the other 99% of the time. ;-)

Mark
 
Hello again Folks,

The continuing story... nearly gave up on the clutch repair/lost my bottle this weekend when the NS drive shaft bolts appeared to be seized/solid, and I couldn't get the starter motor undone. Saturday I was freezing my a** off as there was an icy wind blowing right up my kilt... However all was not lost as shall be revealed below...

Progress so far at the end of the second weekend (about 2 afternoon's work this w/e) , following Notes for Novices...

Section 19 release gearbox linkage: The author doesn't say what he used to prise the cable socket ends off the balls. They are a bit stiff to remove. I tried a large screwdriver as a lever which didn't work, as I realised you need to lever both sides of the socket at the same time. What did work was an appropriately-sized (there is one little socket end and ball, and one big ditto) open-ended spanner between the socket end and the bracket that the ball is attached to. Steady pressure on the spanner to lever off. Careful not to damage the balls.

To unscrew the cable bracket, there is a long horizontal bolt (which Notes for Novices maybe forgot to mention?) -both bolt and nut are 13mm (Notes for Novices, Pic 19: 13mm nut is bottom left below shiny exposed ball in Pic). Remove this long bolt first and then the metal tube which the bolt fits through, with 2 spilt cylindrical thingies at each end of the tube, and a rubber seal at either end of the tube (all this gubbins will just pull out once the long bolt is removed). "Unscrew the three 13mm bolts that hold the cable bracket on the bell-housing": No problem with access to all these bolts once the horizontal bolt is removed. All are 13mm, top two are long, bottom one is short.

Section 24 Remove the starter motor bolts: Gave up on this after having a look. Bottom bolt looks OK to get to, you can see it from under the car. Top two I could locate by touch but not possible to see. Tried to reach one of the top bolts using a similar socket configuration and access route mentioned in Section 24 -without success so far. Managed to get a short spanner on the top bolt but couldn't get enough leverage/force to undo -more spinach for tea might do the trick!

BTW: I don't think I have the car high enough yet to work on, but the nearside is jacked up on an axle stand at it's full height. I'm not comfortable on my back under the car with the car only an inch or two above my chest/face. I've acquired some house bricks to add another couple inches of working height.

If I get stuck on something, instead of winding myself up further, I either have a break, or I try to do another of the steps, then come back to the previous step. I've left the starter motor for another day. Why do they put starter motors in such god-awful places? It was the same on my 2 Polos. I seem to recall that on my Mini it was just behind the front bumper -a doddle!

Section 26 Disconnect NS drive shaft: I tried to do as instructed using a tool designed for the job I didn't even realise I had in the bottom of my toolbox: a solid piece of metal 6mm allen key at one end and 10mm allen key at the other. Forgot that I'd undone a drive shaft on one of my earlier cars a *long, long* time ago. Slotted the fat end into a 10mm socket at the end of my wrench but found that the socket was two wide and was pushed sideways by the fat end of the driveshaft boot, so that I couldn't fit the 6mm bit square/perpendicular into the drive shaft bolt head. Worried that I might damage the bolt heads I took a break and waited for inspiration...

...which came after a tea break: I sawed the angled end off a good quality metal (I've eaten the one's made of cheese!) 6mm allen key (BTW: it's Sunday, all the local partstealers are shut) leaving me with a 2in (that's 5cm in new money) straight piece of allen key, which, fitted into the 6mm socket, could now be inserted square/perpendicular into the drive shaft bolt head. Some steady pressure on my wrench and that very satisfying feeling as the bolt head begins to turn. Hey presto!

Another little tip -the drive shaft bolt heads are a little tight, you need a moderate amount of force, and the drive shaft/hub turns as you try to undo the bolt. If you don't have a helper to put a foot on the brake pedal to lock the hub/driveshaft: I held the brake pedal down with my jack handle wedged between the accelerator and clutch pedals. So: 1. Rotate the hub/drive shaft bolt head into the correct position (about 11 o'clock position-ish) to undo, 2. Lock the drive shaft/hub with the brake pedal, 3. Undo the drive shaft bolt, 4. Unlock the brake pedal/drive shaft/hub, 5. Repeat steps 1 to 4 another 5 times for the other 5 drive shaft bolts.

To finish for the day I tried undoing the 2 hub-to-strut bolts on the NS. No problem. Then rushed to Halfords for a 15mm socket/15mm spanner. How much???!!!!

See you next weekend for the next instalment. All being well.

Mark X
 
Keep going - it'll all work out in the end!

I'm reading your notes with interest as I'm going to be taking out both gearbox and engine from mine in May for a big refurb. Some photos would be worth a 1,000 words (which you've already written, I think :)). If you haven't done so already, it would also be worth copy/pasting what you've written here into the Notes for Novices thread, as it's unlikely anyone reading that will see this at the same time.

BikeDoc posted a description & pics of a simple tool he made for 'locking' the halfshafts. I was looking at it the other day - I'll try to find it & post a link.

As for the 15mm socket etc, get on ebay - order in the next couple of days and it'll be with you before next weekend, and save you the fuel cost of driving to Halfords again....

Btw, the gearbox mounting at NSF that's the subject of many tales of woe on here is starting to become difficult to come by. I tried to buy one from Manodalys (aka forum member Rytiss) and he told me that Birth no longer make them. So check yours carefully for cracks while the 'box is out, & if it's going belly up, start the search. Some of the prices being asked for it on ebay are plain stupid.
 
What I found with the gearbox mount was that there seem to be so many different versions...
I ended up having to change the nut and bolt as it wouldn't budge then stripped the thread on them so had to cut a hole in the top and replace..
Never got round to buying a new one...better go on the search
 
Just seen a couple of idiots on eBay selling mounts for £150 upwards...that's the problem with eBay...full of ****s
Anyone that pays those prices needs their heads read!
 
Quite. Problem is (at least using the part number given by eper for my car - 46833915) the gearbox mount is getting difficult to source for sane money.

The Birth part number for same is 5880. Manodalys still have them listed on their site, but they haven't got stock. I couldn't find any of the usual UK suspects (BuyPartsBy, CarParts4Less, Eurocarparts etc) listing it - could end up being a dealer-only part.
 
Regarding starter motor I found a 1/4 drive almost toy like socket set HAS to be used for top two bolts
locking out driveshaft I use a meaty screwdriver slid into disc and locked out on caliper slider
Best to soak EVERY SINGLE BOLT / NUT with wd40 or other penetrant before even trying to loosen it
 
Ps starter bolts are undone easier when the sub frame to gearbox mount is disconnected
Gives you a little elbow room
As unfortunately it has to be removed working from underneath
 
Thanks for the encouragement chaps, it helps.

"If you haven't done so already, it would also be worth copy/pasting what you've written here into the Notes for Novices thread"
Yes widemouthfrog, good idea. I intend to write up my experience the end result of which will be either: a) job done, b) tow to garage, or c) tow to scrap yard. Will try to take some pics as I go along as you suggest.

I want to complete the job as I've never done a clutch on any car. I'm curious to see what the damage is inside the bellhousing, and generally what things look like for real inside. And I like fixing things. I am anticipating later turning the ignition key and hearing the engine kick back into life for the first time in 5 months, hopefully, and then see what the improvement in the drive quality will be.

Incidently, with the clutch slave cylinder detached the clutch lever arm/pivot feels quite worn/loose. Thinking I might replace the pivot shaft and sleeves? which secure the shaft in the bellhousing.

I think the slave cylinder is a plastic one but it seemed to be working OK prior to detachment from the bellhousing (videoed it working with my digicam), so think I'll keep for now. Easy enough to replace with a metal one later.

I've been umming and rrrring about changing the DMF due to the cost, but have been thinking that the procedure I'm following to replace the clutch is exactly the preparation for replacement of the DMF so what the hell. If I subsequently sell or scrap the car, I've lost some days wages. My local partstealer - who seemed to know his stuff - suggested, for warranty purposes, matching the clutch and DMF -said go for LUK both, but I'm going for a cheaper National clutch (£68) and probably LUK DMF (£250 ish) which he said should be OK. Makes sense to me to change clutch and DMF at the same time, like new brake pads with new brake discs.

Still nervous about crawling under the car, I am borrowing another pair of axle stands off a workmate to raise and level the car, and for more security.

I like to test undoing nuts/bolts before carrying out each step in the procedure proper. I have already loosened the gearbox oil filler and drain plugs with the Laser double-ended hex sump key (PN 1576) no problem. The engine oil sump plug I'm not worried about as I tackled this on a previous thread (5ft breaker bar on the sump plug socket).

Next steps: drain oil and gearbox oil, withdraw NS and OS drive shafts, starter motor disconnected, then gearbox mounts.

The real fun starts this weekend, weather permitting.
 
Thanks for starter motor removal tips Ben skinner.

Mark
 
Yep, thought so:
http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/details/FIAT/MULTIPLA/1.9/2004/__/35/415039310/dual-mass-flywheel/

http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/details/FIAT/MULTIPLA/1.9/2004/__/33/623312700/clutch-kit/

Note that the above is for my car, a 2004 roundnose JTD 115. You may need to tweak settings a little to make sure it's ok for your car. The only thing SAF don't appear to sell is the DMF bolts, which should always be renewed. Get them here:

http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l...bace82a1f17bdf9a29f61a949231fe76afc292&000468
 
Up to you entirely but when removing drop links I found it a lot easier to just crack the nut undo as much as you can then straight in with grinder to cut bolt
When I fitted new I absolutely covered thread and nut with grease (this time) to help possible future removal
I managed to get nearly 3 years out of the last set
 
Hello widemouthfrog, I've already bought a National clutch kit for £68, was quoted £215 inc VAT for a DMF Today at local dealer, think it's an LUK, not bought DMF yet.
 
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