Technical Multipla JTD 1.9 Clutch Replacement (in progress...)

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Technical Multipla JTD 1.9 Clutch Replacement (in progress...)

Been there, done that...as you know, exhausting...and frustrating...
However, once I was reasonably happy I'd aligned the clutch plate centrally, and I'd pushed the gearbox on a bit, and nothing was fouling, and the engine and gearbox seemed horizontally in line, I sat on the floor, positioned my feet on the gearbox end, and shoved it in with both feet, and it worked!, was a bit doubtfull, but it did the trick.
Good luck bro, on the final straight...
 
Thanks MultiplaAbarth, but I can't do it.

I know I have the gearbox at roughly the right height relative to the engine because I have 3 holes lined up vertically between gearbox and engine with locating bolts going through both. The box is about 1"/25mm from home. It's there but not there.

If I had known how difficult just this step would be, there is no way I would have attempted the clutch replacement on this car. I understand now why the mechanic from the local garage quarter of a mile away didn't want to come out and help with this last bit when I asked in advance.

My car could've been back on the road a month ago if I'd gone to a garage.

Well I'll try to get hold of a mobile mechanic tomorrow.

3 days until the tax runs out, no MOT, and I'm on a public road.

Mark X
 
Keep going, Mark. Once you've got the gearbox back in, how much more is there to do? I'd say you're about 80-85% done.
How are you adjusting the tilt of it? I assume you've got the weight of it carried by the lifting/shifting thing; what have you got underneath it?
 
Sound like you've had a guts full..understandable.
I always hate the step where the gearbox shaft needs to go through the clutch plate, even if it looks like everything is lined up. (blob of grease helps on the splined shaft and also clutch splined hole)
The pressure plate keeps the clutch disc in place, so if its slightly out of line, a good shove on the gearbox sometimes moves it in place, (hence why I used both feet to shove it in) also the gbox shaft may need rotating slightly also so it marries up...I've rarely done it in one go on the few cars I've done.
Aav another go!!!
Yes it is a hell of a pig of a job, cant understand how some people reckon its a "straightforward job", still, you will get a medal if you complete it!
 
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How are you adjusting the tilt of it? I assume you've got the weight of it carried by the lifting/shifting thing; what have you got underneath it?

Lifting device to take the weight/adjust height. The box has been happily suspended from the hoist all night. 2 ton trolley jack under the NS end of the gearbox to adjust tilt.

What makes it difficult, assuming I've got the height near as dammit correct, is that:

- You have to get the tilt correct in another 2 axes: pivoting the box around a vertical axis ie. rotating side-to-side relative to the engine, and pivoting around a horizontal axis ie. rotating the end of the box up and down NS to OS relative to the engine.

- There are several dowels on the engine that the box has to mate with, plus the input shaft has to mate with the clutch plate, plus the OS output shaft has to go into the OS driveshaft seal (or into the circular cavity at least).

- The box weighs the same as a small child 6 stone/80-odd pounds/36-odd Kg so you can only push it around for so long from underneath, from the side, and on top before you're pumped, and the adjustment has to be millimetre or fractions of a millimetre perfect, not easy at all with such a heavy weight.

(I watched a YouTube video of how the pros do it: car up on a lift at a nice height to work at, with the gearbox supported on a wheeled pedestal - at exactly the right height relative to the engine - with which they wheel up/present the gearbox to the engine. Looks a doddle compared)

- Access to do the above is restricted.

Mark
 
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Too right, access all areas is very restricted, I know. People miss out the finer boring details when they write up a guide to doing a job, in ten easy steps.
Personally, I had a trolley jack underneath the sump with block of wood, as well as trolley jack under gearbox, I did have to move the engine up and down quite a lot to experiment with positions, eventually it went in.
It may take 5 mins, it may take 3 hours...
If you just tell the mechanic you will not hold him responsible for any of the work he does, you just simply need another pair of strong hands, and another brain to knock ideas around with. Hope you get it done today, good luck.
 
How about using your scissor jack at (or close to) the mating edge of the bell housing? As you said before, the scissor jack gives much finer control of movement than the trolley jack, especially 'coming down'. The problem will be getting a flat/horizontal face to push against, I guess. Can you use a bungee round the 'box to hold some wood packers in place? Or perhaps another piece of scaffold board sat on the curb to bridge the gutter would give a better platform for it to sit on? You could even screw the jack to the board.

Good luck and I hope you get it sorted today.
 
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Keep going...that's the hardest bit
..probably took me the best part of 2 hours to get it back on eventually with the help of 2 neighbours....all of a sudden it will just slot in...
Be careful the bloody release bearing doesnt fall off in the process...quite possibly the worst design in the world as there is nothing physical holding it in place...
I'd definitely say you need a another pair of hands though
 
Hello,

Well I had another go at getting the bellhousing on earlier Today without success, so I tried to find a mobile mechanic to help. No-one was available, all busy. One has offered to help when he finishes work tomorrow if needed. However he did give me one vital pointer...

He said that when he installs a gearbox he uses the bellhousing bolts to locate the gearbox on the engine, starting with the top bolt at 12 o'clock...

However, when you're starting to install the box of course the box starts off a long way from the engine, so the bellhousing bolts are too short to reach the engine holes, so could I use longer substitute bolts from somewhere to guide the box onto the engine? Answer: Yes, the bolts holding up the front subframe are the same thread and diameter as the larger bellhousing bolts, but much longer. So I cleaned up the thread on a subframe bolt, and wiggled the gearbox around until the bolt slotted into the 12 o'clock bolt hole in the engine. That's your anchor/pivot point sorted. I then did the same with 2 other larger bolts on the bellhousing near the front of the car. I also managed to get one of the proper 13mm bellhousing bolts screwed into its engine hole. The box is still too far away - about 25mm - from the engine for 3 of the real bellhousing bolts ("i", "j", "k" in Notes for Novices) to reach the threaded part of their holes. BUT looking through the NS wheelarch, if I have 4 bolts screwed into the engine then, rotationally about an horizontal axis perpendicular to the engine/gearbox mating surfaces, the gearbox must be in it's correct position relative to the engine ie. 12 o'clock on the gearbox lines up with 12 o'clock on the engine etc.

I couldn't push the gearbox on any further, and I am not sure why not. Now the box doesn't wiggle around anymore.

Some questions:

- If the box is still 25mm from home, has the input shaft already successfully mated with the clutch plate?

- When people give the gearbox it's final push onto the engine, how far away is the gearbox from the engine at the start, and how far away after you've given it a push?

- Am I safe to continue tightening the bellhousing bolts, or does the resistance tell me that for instance the gearbox input shaft is meeting resistance/hasn't mated with the splined hole in the clutch plate, so I need to adjust something?

- The clutch lever is loose thoughout it's travel, does it tighten up as the release bearing meets resistance from the clutch fingers?

As for release bearing falling off - the LUK bearing has a square hook off the bottom bracket hooking around/under the lower fork arm, so once the bearing is installed I think it's impossible for it to fall off. I hope...

The clock is ticking... if I don't get the box on Today, it will probably take a full day to reassemble everything, I will have arrange a tow to a garage, which will cost god knows what...

Oh, forgot to mention... my lower back finally gave way last night. Forgot the danger of manipulating a heavy object with restricted access/your body in the wrong position relative to the load - until my back went. Taken some painkillers.
 
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Sorry... I haven't read all of your thread, but the usual reason a gearbox won't mate fully with the engine is because the clutch plate is not centred correctly.

For the above reason, do not force the gearbox in by tightening the bell housing bolts. When I've done Stilo JTD gearboxes before, I just use 1 or 2 long bolts in the top hole(s) to take the weight of the gearbox. This allows the gearbox wiggle a bit while gently pushing it in.
.
 
>>>I couldn't push the gearbox on any further, and I am not sure why not. Now the box doesn't wiggle around anymore.

I have spoken to the mechanic at my local garage for a bit of advice. Here's what he said: When he installs a gearbox onto an engine it can take two of them - ie. two professionals - up to an hour to get a gearbox back on. And that's working in a dedicated car workshop with all the right equipment and years of experience.

He also said that he doesn't install any bolts *until* the gearbox is flush against the face of the engine. If you install the bolts beforehand you will not be able to wiggle the box around to mate it up with the engine/clutch plate. And don't use the bolts to force the box on, you may destroy the clutch plate. I asked him how accurate you have to be aligning the clutch plate and I think he said 2-3mm. I think I got mine accurate to about 0.25-0.5mm checking it against the circumference of the pressure plate, but it still won't go.

...probably took me the best part of 2 hours to get it back on eventually with the help of 2 neighbours

So, for another Forum-er, it took 3 people! to get the gearbox back on. I just get to the most difficult step of the clutch replacement (unbeknowns to me in advance) - and if you can't do it you're scr*wed - and only now do I hear that it is likely that you will struggle to get the job done on your own: the job can take up to 3 amateurs or 2 professionals to do it. I think people need to read this long before they attempt the job, not at the precise moment you get to the most difficult step. I think if I had read this 2 months ago, it would have been obvious to me just how difficult this crunch step is and I would probably not have attempted the clutch replacement at all. This after spending hundreds of pounds on parts and tools, a huge amount of time and effort, and now extra labour.

Maybe other people are more experienced or have just been lucky, and the box has slotted home without much effort.

To anyone thinking of attempting a clutch replacement on their Multipla, I hope my experience stands as a warning.
 
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I'd have to disagree with the mechanic you consulted on 2 points.

  1. It doesn't necessarily need more than 1 person to instal a gearbox.
  2. Accuracy of the clutch alignment needs to be much less that 2-3mm. 2-3mm would only be true if the splined boss in the centre of the clutch plate was able to move that much in relation to the rest of the plate.
When I replaced my own Stilo JTD clutch and DMF, I did it on my own with the gearbox on a trolley jack. The key to it is centralising the clutch plate correctly with centre bush or bearing in the flywheel.

What tool did you use to align the clutch plate? The universal conical tools are seldom accurate.

When I did mine, I bought the Fiat special alignment tool, (about £5) but even that had a small amount of play where it went through the clutch plate splines. I wound a small length of tape around it to make up the play.

Don't give up now, you're almost there. (y)
.
 
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Your mechanic is frankly talking out of his arse! When I had the clutch done by a friend who has his own workshop and 4 poster ramp he easily slotted the gearbox home on his own with the aid of a stand!

The reason why its difficult to do it at home is that you are trying to lift and manouver a 30kg mass while laying on your back and the car only being an inch from your face!
Have you not got any friends that could lend a hand? It really is an easy job and you have done all the hard work!
 
The clutch plate has to be pretty much bang on.
You mentioned the O/S driveshaft, if you can take that out of the equation it will make it easier, it may not seem like much but every little helps.
If you have a local scrapyard with a knackered box out of a fiat then providing the input shaft matches yours you could ask em to cut it out with the gas axe and use that as your alignment tool.
Once you get that clutch lined up properly you will be fine.
 
I did the job by myself, I WAS lucky that it went in pretty early on, I did get very tired and wound up, my back hurt...
I supported my head on bricks/wood, I put wood chocks on my belly to move the gearbox.
I got hot, wringing wet, and caught man flu, I had a nice warm bath at the end of the day, sleep , knackered..
The gearbox needs to wiggle about bit so the shaft can move the clutch plate into place if its a few mm out.
In your situation you do need another pair of hands, you already know this...
I was dreading doing a multi clutch job, and avoided it as long as I could. I sold my last multi when its clutch was on its last legs, but the buyer paid less because of that, so avoided that one. Its the weight of the ffin gearbox really...
Just try your best to beg/steal/borrow some muscle, dont give in, it will bug you untill you finally croak!
Good luck dude!
 
The clutch plate has to be pretty much bang on.
You mentioned the O/S driveshaft, if you can take that out of the equation it will make it easier, it may not seem like much but every little helps.
If you have a local scrapyard with a knackered box out of a fiat then providing the input shaft matches yours you could ask em to cut it out with the gas axe and use that as your alignment tool.
Once you get that clutch lined up properly you will be fine.

Thanks. Good idea but unfortunately I only have about 30 hours - including overnight - to get overything back on the car and offroad into a garage for MOT prep - the tax runs out midnight Wednesday. No time to run around to scrapyards unfortunately. The mechanic's coming at 5-30 this evening, so hopefully he knows his stuff.
 
Its the weight of the ffin gearbox really...

Exactly!

it will bug you untill you finally croak!

No it won't.

What will bug me is: a) A fine for no car tax, or b) Paying an extortionate amount for a tow to a garage, and then getting my arms and legs ripped off to get work done I could've done myself, or c) Tow to a scrapyard, crusher, cargo ship to China, melting down powered by one of their many greenhouse gas-belching coal-fired power stations, then returned to Blighty reincarnated as an Electrolux washing machine..., or d) Not booking it into a garage in the ffin first place!
 
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