Given that you can buy a basic one on the net for circa £15 or get a Bluetooth plug in one for less and (I think) an android app one for less still, is it wasting money to go to an auto electric engineer who will charge £40+ just to read a diagnostic code and send you off with some scribbled letters on the back of an envelope?

Or is it a false economy because the ones they have are the real deal and these DIY ones just aren't good enough?

Or is it just the case that the £1000 reader they bought whatever years ago can only do what one of these 'lesser' ones can do now for so much less? (And also explain why they charge £40+ for one read perhaps,)

If so, anyone got any recommendations for any hand held, Bluetooth or app ones that have worked OK?

Mine's an engine fault light on a '54 Multi JTD Extravaganza btw. Sure it's something simple anyway, but better get it read in case - just don't want to be paying over the odds to get to the first stage.

Thanks.

Here's one for example:

Bluetooth OBDII OBD2 Diagnostic Scanner, Scan tool check Engine Light CAR CODE READER for ELM327: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

Bargain or false economy?

For the small investment you need to make, give it a go. The best set up to use is an ELM327 cable or equivalent and the free-to-download MultiECUScan:

http://www.multiecuscan.net/

which is a very complete bit of software. It does far more than the Android apps, but is less convenient to use. You'll also need a laptop to hand to run it on. For the sake of a c.£12 cable, you'll be able to do almost everything that a garage diagnostic machine can do.

Thanks Mr Frog.

And is this 'the' one to get / better than all the basic hand-helds / others?

Are the leads easy to get hold of ?

I finally splashed out on one last week. I bought the ELM327, because that seems to be the general recommendation. This comes with the lead, so it plugs straight into the diagnostics port on the Multipla and the lead plugs into a USB socket on a laptop.

I bought this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331134411220?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

It says "mini USB', but it's really a standard USB A (as is usually found on a laptop).

It comes with a disc, with the drivers on.

I downloaded the free multiecuscan software, and it all worked straightaway.

I didn't bother with a BlueTooth one, because the diagnostic port is so easily accessible, and the simpler connection should present fewer problems.

Chr1s have you tried it yet..only I have that one and it doesn't seem to work on my multi

Have you checked that the port number assigned on the laptop is correct?

boilermansab said:

Chr1s have you tried it yet..only I have that one and it doesn't seem to work on my multi

Click to expand...

Yes. It worked straight off, just showing one fault code for the glow plugs (which I was already aware of).

There were two options for the Engine - Bosch EDC15C7 CF3/EOBD or Bosch EDC16C39 CF4/EOBD. I had no idea which, so I tried the first and it worked, on my early nosejob Multi.

widemouthfrog said:

For the small investment you need to make, give it a go. The best set up to use is an ELM327 cable or equivalent and the free-to-download MultiECUScan:

http://www.multiecuscan.net/

which is a very complete bit of software. It does far more than the Android apps, but is less convenient to use. You'll also need a laptop to hand to run it on. For the sake of a c.£12 cable, you'll be able to do almost everything that a garage diagnostic machine can do.

Click to expand...

As I say, thanks Mr Widemouth ("Frog" was so impersonal looking back ) all I need to do now is figure out the multi coloured key for what, I assume looking at the model listings, is my multi:



Fiat
Multipla '02
1.9 JTD/Multijet Bosch EDC15C7 CF3/EOBD Diesel Injection (1.9, 2.4) |INFO|DTC|DTC EX|PRM|ACT|ADJ| KLELMOBDKey
Bosch EDC16C39 CF4/EOBD Diesel Injection (1.9, 2.4) |INFO|DTC|DTC EX|PRM|ACT|ADJ| KLELMOBDKey
Bosch ABS 5.3 |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT| KL 1OBDKey 1 A1
Bosch ABS 5.7 VDC |INFO|DTC|DTC EX|PRM|ACT|ADJ| KL 1ELM 1OBDKey 1 A1
SIEMENS MY99 Airbag (2F-2P-2L-2T-I) |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT| KL 3OBDKey 3 A2
SIEMENS MY99 Airbag (2F-2P-2L-I) |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT| KL 3OBDKey 3 A2
SIEMENS MY99 Airbag (2F-2P-I) |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT| KL 3OBDKey 3 A2




...and which cable it needs.

Chris: I'm sure you have linked the right one but trying to check via that list ( as copied above) is beyond me at the moment - and the reply to your post about that one not working confirms I need to d. check it's the right one.

Also, does this software only cover our Italian friends Alfa & Fiat - the basic hand helds / apps seem to be generic ( as we also have a Yaris to look after - don't shoot ).

chr1s said:

Yes. It worked straight off, just showing one fault code for the glow plugs (which I was already aware of).

Click to expand...

Hi chr1s, & thanks also.

Did you work out the right lead to get via the multi coloured model table of the software website

http://www.multiecuscan.net/SupportedVehiclesList.aspx

(this one)

...or did you just search it and that lead came up?

chr1s said:

I finally splashed out on one last week. I bought the ELM327, because that seems to be the general recommendation. This comes with the lead, so it plugs straight into the diagnostics port on the Multipla and the lead plugs into a USB socket on a laptop.

I bought this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331134411220?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

It says "mini USB', but it's really a standard USB A (as is usually found on a laptop).

It comes with a disc, with the drivers on.

I downloaded the free multiecuscan software, and it all worked straightaway.

I didn't bother with a BlueTooth one, because the diagnostic port is so easily accessible, and the simpler connection should present fewer problems.

Click to expand...

Actually Chr1s, looking at your ebay link, I am a little confused. Is that a reader / diagnostic tool in itself (with a lead on to plug in) - I.e. comes with software & drivers etc.

If so, why them do you need the multiecuscan software download (as per widemouth's post) as well?

Do you need that?

Sorry, did I tell you I am a noob at all this?

It looks very similar to my bluetooth one. I leave it permanently plugged into the the OBD socket (mine is small enough to not get in the way of my knees, if you know what I mean ) so I get on-the-hoof fault diagnosis using my Android phone.

Not that I'd suggest in any way that my Multipla is unreliable, of course.

The bluetooth and cabled versions of the ELM327 do the same job; they just connect to the reading device (be that smartphone, laptop or whatever) in different ways. You need a (software) driver for the ELM327, then a piece of diagnostic software (such as Torque Lite for Android or MultiECUScan for PC) to provide the actual diagnostics. The ELM327 is just an interface device - it doesn't in itself provide any fault code reading.

Stuff like Torque Lite is hung like a baby carrot and deux petit pois compared to MultiECUScan. You will be amazed at what the latter can read from your car. It can also reset a lot of faults on the ECU that the former can't.

realstokebloke said:

Hi chr1s, & thanks also.

Did you work out the right lead to get via the multi coloured model table of the software website

http://www.multiecuscan.net/SupportedVehiclesList.aspx

(this one)

...or did you just search it and that lead came up?

Click to expand...

I searched on FiatForum, and ELM327 was the interface which was recommended in a few posts.
According to the table on your link, this may not work with the ABS and Airbag fault codes. I haven't tried those yet. I have never had a problem with my ABS or Airbag (famous last words), so I was more interested in fault codes from the Engine.
As Widemouthfrog says,
- the ELM327 plugs into the diagnostic socket on the Multipla and its integral lead plugs into a laptop.
- the drivers are required for the laptop to communicate with the ELM327.
- the laptop is now linked into the CAN bus, via the ELM327, but it needs the Multiecuscan software to interrogate the ECUs and to make sense of the error codes, etc.

It appears that Multiecuscan only works with Alfa/Fiat/Lancia and Fiat-derived cars. CAN is just the means of communication, but different car manufacturers implement it differently.
Using the analogy of a telephone, you can speak through your telephone to anyone else's telephone which you have a connection to, but you might not be speaking the same language, or you may not understand the language you are hearing.

widemouthfrog said:

It looks very similar to my bluetooth one. I leave it permanently plugged into the the OBD socket (mine is small enough to not get in the way of my knees, if you know what I mean ) so I get on-the-hoof fault diagnosis using my Android phone.

Not that I'd suggest in any way that my Multipla is unreliable, of course.

The bluetooth and cabled versions of the ELM327 do the same job; they just connect to the reading device (be that smartphone, laptop or whatever) in different ways. You need a (software) driver for the ELM327, then a piece of diagnostic software (such as Torque Lite for Android or MultiECUScan for PC) to provide the actual diagnostics. The ELM327 is just an interface device - it doesn't in itself provide any fault code reading.

Stuff like Torque Lite is hung like a baby carrot and deux petit pois compared to MultiECUScan. You will be amazed at what the latter can read from your car. It can also reset a lot of faults on the ECU that the former can't.

Click to expand...

Thanks again Widemouth.

I (sort of) get it now. Or at least, I'll be along in a minute.

So have you got the petit pois / carrot ensemble on your (android) phone (Torque Lite) or can you get the MultiECUScan for a phone too - I think you can but doesn't it say you need a licensed (paid for) version for Windows to get the Android download?

Or have you got both?

Given the number of light shows I've been getting lately, the phone/Bluetooth ' diagnose as you drive ' option doesn't sound like a bad idea.

chr1s said:

I searched on FiatForum, and ELM327 was the interface which was recommended in a few posts.
According to the table on your link, this may not work with the ABS and Airbag fault codes. I haven't tried those yet. I have never had a problem with my ABS or Airbag (famous last words), so I was more interested in fault codes from the Engine.
As Widemouthfrog says,
- the ELM327 plugs into the diagnostic socket on the Multipla and its integral lead plugs into a laptop.
- the drivers are required for the laptop to communicate with the ELM327.
- the laptop is now linked into the CAN bus, via the ELM327, but it needs the Multiecuscan software to interrogate the ECUs and to make sense of the error codes, etc.

It appears that Multiecuscan only works with Alfa/Fiat/Lancia and Fiat-derived cars. CAN is just the means of communication, but different car manufacturers implement it differently.
Using the analogy of a telephone, you can speak through your telephone to anyone else's telephone which you have a connection to, but you might not be speaking the same language, or you may not understand the language you are hearing.

Click to expand...

And once again, thanks chr1s.

As per my post above, I sort of get it now I need the leads (the ELM327 bit) AND the software download (the MultiECUScan bit).

But to be thick again; from the page on the link (list of vehicles) & the Multipla JTD section ( we have the same 'bus', mine's a '54 JTD Eleganza ), where it lists both the

Bosch EDC15C7 CF3/EOBD and the

Bosch EDC16C39 CF4/EOBD

does that mean they either have one or the other interface on the car (but it doesn't matter 'cos it reads them both?)

And (not that it matters, as I want it primarily for the engine too) but from that section, how do you deduce that it doesn't work with the Airbag / ABS codes?

I thought the bits it doesn't support we're in red, so as they are in black, I read this as it DID read them but I am probably wrong as usual.

I'd think it will read both. The CF3/CF4 bit is the emissions compliance for the engines. CF4 standard superseded CF3 and supposedly results in a cleaner engine. I'd expect the different Bosch codes to be part of the compliance. Someone with better knowledge than I may be able to explain in more detail. The Multipla doesn't run any bleeding edge ECU software so I'd be surprised if you find it doesn't work. Do pay heed to the comment about cheapo ELM327 cables near the top of the MultiECUScan web page though; several of them need a littel bit of tampering with before they will function properly.

Airbag and ABS resets are where a lot of the cheaper diagnostics tools fall down. Because these two aspects are very safety critical many of them don't offer a reset facility, though they can often still diagnose the fault. Think about it - if you were manufacturing kit that can reset an airbag or braking fault in the hands of an untrained punter, would you want the liability?

As I originally said, for less than half the cost of a single visit to a garage to have a fault code read, you can have access to at least 90% of all that they offer, any time you want. There's stacks of help here on the forum for using them, so you're not exactly going to be out there on your own if you get stuck.

Thanks again WMF.

(I finally found the thanks button too ).

Yes, I think it's worth a shot, given the relative costs involved and the endless supply of help on here fro whee I get a " ? " or two. (Note the "when" )

Just on the "Cheapo" cables on the "MultiECUScan website" you mention - where do you mean exactly sorry? On the site that you provided the link for some posts back or is there a sticky on here about them or something that I haven't found yet or somewhere else?

(Were they even for sale on the MultiECUScan site - I thought it was just some technical mambo jumbo about some slight differences in pins between the different ones.)

Does the one that Chr1s recommends look OK for e.g.?

Home page of MultiECUScan site, about the third line down, 'ELM 327 interface warning' and the link at the end of it. The guidance on that site is very good and clear - follow it step by step and it should get you up and running.

You need to buy the ELM 327 cable from either ebay or one of the Amazon Marketplace sellers (they're often one and the same ). That will come with a CD with the drivers for the cable, or a link to a site where you can download them. There are hundreds of them on ebay - don't ask for recommendation of one seller over another as a lot of them change with the tides! Search this forum using 'ELM 327' as the search term for a plethora of links to ebay pages if you want assurance, but most of them are now expired (so I won't add to the pile here).

All you get from the MultiECUScan site is the download of the V.1.8 diagnostic software. No money to be spent there. Go with the grey-button 'Download Multiecuscan 1.8' that's the first one on the right. That's the freebie version. If you've got access to a laptop, I wouldn't bother with the mobile version yet. Keep it simple. See if you get on with that before being tempted into parting with more hard-earned cash for the bells-and-whistles versions.

I'm liking the avatar btw

widemouthfrog said:

Home page of MultiECUScan site, about the third line down, 'ELM 327 interface warning' and the link at the end of it. The guidance on that site is very good and clear - follow it step by step and it should get you up and running.

You need to buy the ELM 327 cable from either ebay or one of the Amazon Marketplace sellers (they're often one and the same ). That will come with a CD with the drivers for the cable, or a link to a site where you can download them. There are hundreds of them on ebay - don't ask for recommendation of one seller over another as a lot of them change with the tides! Search this forum using 'ELM 327' as the search term for a plethora of links to ebay pages if you want assurance, but most of them are now expired (so I won't add to the pile here).

All you get from the MultiECUScan site is the download of the V.1.8 diagnostic software. No money to be spent there. Go with the grey-button 'Download Multiecuscan 1.8' that's the first one on the right. That's the freebie version. If you've got access to a laptop, I wouldn't bother with the mobile version yet. Keep it simple. See if you get on with that before being tempted into parting with more hard-earned cash for the bells-and-whistles versions.

I'm liking the avatar btw

Click to expand...

Thanks WMF.

Looking around (& being wary of dodgy cables) I have seen a KKL cable with a switch that let's you flick between engine / airbag / brake readings. This one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiatecusc...iagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item19e8edb57e

It looks kosher & not a cheapo that needs a mod (which I'd be totally inept at doing anyway) but - based on my understanding that KKL cables are an alternative to the ELM 327 cable, my Question would be:

Is KKL 'system' / cable less reliable / inferior to the ELM 'system' / cable (I'm sure it's a software but 'system' will do).

Or is the collective wisdom / evidence that ELM is better?

(On the MultieECUScan site under 'eligible' vehicles, it does have KKL as a recognised cable / link for my Multi, so that should be OK at least.)

Ref the avatar; yes, shame they never got round to knocking that Multipla up - a nasty little runaround it would have been too.

I would be interested to know which model OBD2 reader you bought that definitely works with a smartphone. I want one that works with my Android phone so would appreciate any recommendations. I have a 2003 Multipla 1.9 JTD 115 ELX