Technical Clutch Replacement - Additional Notes

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Technical Clutch Replacement - Additional Notes

bplee459

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Well, my Multi is back on the road, sporting a nice shiny new clutch :D

Feels good, nice & light and the bite somewhere in the middle of the pedal.

So, to share my experiences...

First a gratuitous pic of the offending thrust bearing



I mostly followed the 'Notes for Novices' (from now on 'N4N') by SillyBilly, with reference also to 'Diy guide clutch replacement' by bikes-for-me. Both great guides, with good pictures, and I would heartily recommend to anyone thinking about doing their clutch at home to read them both.

I printed out the N4N guide for reference as it includes the torque settings for putting it all back together.

There are a few alterations I would make to these guides though.

1) Rear Engine Mount
In the N4N guide, (part 21 iv.) he says to "remove the central, vertical 19mm long bolt in the rear support". He then goes on to show how this causes the mount to fall apart :eek: There's no need to take this central bolt out of the mount.

In part 21 iii, he says "You don’t need to undo the more visible big bolt holding the brace that goes from the bottom of the rear support to the top stud". This is true if you take the long bolt out of the centre of the mount. I ignored this and took the brace bar off the mount and just the two 13mm bolts holding it to the cross beam. The mount will then swing forward on the lower stud and out of the cross beam in one piece, with no need for lowering the engine, and you don't have to re-assemble it before putting it back on.

Similarly, in section 30 he shows taking the centre, vertical bolt out of the front gearbox mount. I removed the three 13mm bolts holding the rubber onto the chassis and took the whole mounting off. I don't know if it makes much difference which way you do it, but the big bolt on mine didn't want to move easily.


2) Starter Motor
This is quite a biggie in terms of making life easier - leave the starter motor alone until you've got the engine supported and the rear engine mount off. The 'N4N' guide does tell you to do it this way round, but bikes-for-me says the other way round. I obviously hadn't read both the guides thoroughly enough and I struggled (and swore) a lot getting the bolts out, but when putting it back together, I found that the access was massively improved with the mount out of the way. You can't see it any better, but at least you can get both hands up to it rather than trying to work one-handed.


3) The Long Stud (snigger away folks)
DEFINITELY get the top longer stud out of the gearbox as described in part 23 of 'N4N' guide. Mine came out easily and means you don't need to move the box very far to clear the engine.


4) Driveshafts
I found that you don't need to break the track-rod ends on either side or undo the anti-roll bar nuts to get the driveshafts out of the way, just undo the two bolts attaching the hub to the strut on the N/S and you'll have enough room to maneuver.



On the O/S, you don't have to split the driveshaft, but you'll have to undo the two hub/strut bolts and crack the lower wishbone knuckle to get enough movement to actually get the driveshaft clear of the gearbox oil seal.



I had trouble getting the O/S driveshaft bearing to move, so I improvised a puller using spring compressors (Hilka, £17.99 from Screwfix) between the driveshaft flange and wishbone as below:



Fair amount of pressure on the puller and a couple of sharp tugs on the hub and the bearing popped out of its housing, allowing the driveshaft to clear the gearbox oil seal.

5) Gearbox
I got mine out without dropping the subframe. It's tight, but not impossible. And if like me the look of the rusty bolts on your subframe give you the fear, here's roughly how I did it.

After much wiggling, I came back to the forum as I vaguely remembered reading that someone had managed the feat. I found the post from Flying Clutchman saying that you need to jack up the engine. Only having one hydraulic jack (which was under the gearbox), I put the Multi's own scissor jack under the sump with a block of wood. I think that this helped (more by luck than judgement) as the articulated foot on the jack allowed the engine to move backwards (towards the bulkhead) as I raised it, giving a bit more clearance at the front to get the box out. I also had to undo the front intercooler pipe (the corrugated one) at the engine end, to give enough room for the bell-housing to come out.

In the end, the box had to turn in two axes
- as you look from on top (under the bonnet): clockwise
- as you look from the end (through the N/S wheelarch): anti-clockwise

I took pictures as I put it back in to show roughly how it went (apologies for the poor focus on some of them, not the best light and camera on my phone):



After the last photo, I spent quite a long time scratching my head and not being able to get the splined shaft to line up with the clutch until I realised I needed to let the engine back down off the jack. As I did, the engine obligingly came back forward towards the radiator, and the gearbox slid nicely home. Success (y)

You might have noticed the lifting eye I used to re-fit. This was an M8 straining-eye bolt from the local hardware shop (about 90p) cut down so the thread was the same length as the slave cylinder bolts and screwed into the hole nearest the bell-housing (the one that is used for the cylinder, not the 'spare' one). The box hangs nicely from this and I really should have done it when dropping the box :bang: would have made my life a lot easier!

In the end, I found the existing guides for clutch replacement are very thorough and I wouldn't have got very far without them, so I would like to thank both SillyBilly and bikes-for-me.

I hope this information helps somebody out in the future.

Apologies for the thumbnail size photos, can't figure out how to make them bigger?

Cheers all,

Ben.
 
Great work Ben! Using an eye bolt in a slave cylinder bolt hole is a top tip too (y)(y)(y). Thanks for taking lots of photos - it makes the descriptions much easier to follow.

Just out of interest, have you got any photos of the fingers on the old clutch pressure plate? Mine were worn (there was a grroove in all of them where the release bearing contacts them), even on a clutch that had only done about 30k miles. That's why I asked if you had any play in the bearings for the clutch release arm - I think something's not quite right on mine in that area. You said yours had a release bearing that was shot, whereas on mine it wasn't that bad.
 
The 'fingers' on mine were worn, I'd assumed at the time it was because of the state of the release bearing.
Maybe not, as you point out.
Clutch1.jpg
 
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Nice photo BD, and just the same as the wear on mine. I've got a feeling that this is where a lot of the pedal travel (or lack of it) goes when the clutch goes belly up. At least for some people, which is why I asked Ben if his is like this.

Wear like that looks more like a design flaw than simple wear and tear to me. I'd like to figure out why the release bearing would put a groove in the fingers like that; then it might be possible to make a preventative fix.

Anyway, this is hijacking Bens' thread to some extent, which isn't what a forum is about. So I'll shut up......

Did you get the gearbox out and in on your own Ben?
 
Hi WMF

I didn't take any photos of the old clutch I'm afraid, but it looked spookily exactly the same as BD's (and yours by the sound of it).

I'd assumed that it had happened on mine because the thrust bearing had seized before it collapsed, digging itself a groove. It had been making a sort of crunchy hissing noise (if that makes any sense :)) any time I went anywhere near the pedal for a couple of weeks before it actually went, which I had thought was the fingers rubbing on the static bearing. Maybe it is just bad design?

And yes, I did the whole job solo. The only help I had was my girlfriend putting her foot on the brakes so I could undo the driveshaft bolts. Probably the worst bit to do on your own is getting the O/S shaft back into the box and the hub back into position, many trips back and forth under the car balancing the hub carefully each time so it didn't drop and pull the shaft back out (again...and again).

One thing I didn't mention was that I supported the engine and gearbox on a length of 2x4 timber across the wings, tied back to the bonnet hinges so it couldn't slide forward, and a couple of half-ton ratchet cargo straps (about £3.50 from Toolstation). The engine I held at the gearbox end, strapped under the round aluminium thing (not sure what it is!) attached to the end of the head and back under the pipe which I assume is part of the intake manifold.

Before you cringe too much, not too long ago I swapped engines in a '79 Volvo estate (2.1 litre petrol - big heavy lump of steel) and one of the lifting eyes on that was only held on by one of the 10mm rocker-box cover nuts, so I thought that the 'thing' I used on this, being held on by 2 (possibly 3 - I can't remember) 13mm bolts would be plenty strong enough.

And don't worry about hijacking the thread, the more info on these clutches that's out there for people the better in my opinion :D

Cheers,

Ben.
 
Mmmm. The plot thickens. I'm going to take another look at my old clutch, which I still haven't got around to throwing away. I'm sure things could be improved.

Do folks here think that the clutch release bearing is/should be completely clear of the pressure plate fingers when your foot's not on the pedal, or is it permanently (but lightly) in contact with them?

Oh, to be able to see inside the bellhousing when it's all put together....
 
Well WMF, now you mention it, I was quite surprised that I had to press the piston back into the slave cylinder when re-fitting, and it was pushing against me as I was putting the bolts in, which suggests that the bearing is being forced into constant contact with the fingers.

It didn't require a lot of force to push the piston in, but certainly some.

Need to get your x-ray specs out :D

FFF - my Multi has just over 50k on it (I got it around 42k) and as far as I'm aware it hasn't had a clutch fitted before.

It all depends on how you drive it really. My Dad has a Ford Transit with 250,000km (~160k miles) on it (he lives in Portugal) - and as far as we know it's still on the original clutch.

I know you can't really compare a Multi with a Transit, but driven carefully a clutch should do a lot more than 50k - having said that this is my first Fiat...
 
FFF - my Multi has just over 50k on it (I got it around 42k) and as far as I'm aware it hasn't had a clutch fitted before.

Thanks for the reply, mine currently on 32k plus, so have some time to go yet. 1st 22k was A roads and pottering around town. Last 10k been mostly motorway.
 
4) Driveshafts
I found that you don't need to break the track-rod ends on either side or undo the anti-roll bar nuts to get the driveshafts out of the way, just undo the two bolts attaching the hub to the strut on the N/S and you'll have enough room to maneuver.



On the O/S, you don't have to split the driveshaft, but you'll have to undo the two hub/strut bolts and crack the lower wishbone knuckle to get enough movement to actually get the driveshaft clear of the gearbox oil seal.



I had trouble getting the O/S driveshaft bearing to move, so I improvised a puller using spring compressors (Hilka, £17.99 from Screwfix) between the driveshaft flange and wishbone as below:



Fair amount of pressure on the puller and a couple of sharp tugs on the hub and the bearing popped out of its housing, allowing the driveshaft to clear the gearbox oil seal.


Cheers all,

Ben.

I just wanted to say thanks to Ben, I spent two hours trying to get the driveshaft out and had the same issue with the bearing. Your solution worked perfectly, thanks!

Kevin
 
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