I have taken my 2001 1.9 diesel multipla to the same garage since I purchased it in May 2011. Since the end of September 2012 we have noticebly heard (more than usual) a knocking sound - which we always declared sounded like it was coming from the back end. *Definately more noticeable with weight in the boot.
The garage have replaced the track rod end (so had to have the wheels tracked as well). The knocking sound was still there so this time we had a nearside front shock absorber & coil spring. All in all setting me back aroun 260 quid! Only to discover the noise is still there. I complained & the garage looked at it again for free.
I have now been told my Multipla needs new rear radius arms on both sides; quoted approx 400 quid including parts/fitting/vat.
Had a look on ebay, saw radius arm repair kits on Ebay around 20/25 pound. Garage said these would only last around 3 mths - I need 2 complete arms. Saw some a few months ago on shop4parts at 88.26 each (105.91 with vat + 6.95 p&p). Is this my only option??
Am a bit concerned as whilst we've been saving to get rear radius arms done, we've had to take the car back into the garage (last Weds) as we can hear a noise on the front this time; my partner said he has heard a 'clunk' sound on a couple of occaisions and it's not steering properly, 'loose?' Garage have told us it's the anti-roll bar / bushes & will cost us around 167 to fix (I presume this is all in??)
My partner said to go ahead then, but within a few hours had found the part (what we think is the part 24.99 each on ebay). Rang the garage back, asked if we could order these instead but was told it was too late to cancel the order. We said ok as we don't want to upset anyone. We had the car back as were told the parts wouldn't be in until next week (now this week).
Our MOT is up on 14th Feb so presume I need all thes fixing for it to pass? Looks like i'm gonna be spending 500 pounds plus to get my Multipla fixed.
Advice please from anyone at all who knows about Multiplas....Is it time I gave up on this one??

Mmmm.... sounds like the garage think they're onto a cash cow to me. I'd tread carefully.

The rear knock could be the trailing arms. Can you describe the knock in more detail? Is it a solid, deep 'thunk' that you can almost feel through the floor of the car, or something more metallic and higher pitched? It might be worth taking a passenger for a trip round the block while they're in the boot having a listen.

For the front end, it sounds as though they are replacing the front roll bar complete with its' bushes. Buying parts from Fiat, the only way you can get the roll bar bushes is complete with the rollbar; it sounds as though they've called the local Fiat dealer and been advised as much. However, it's now possible to by just the rubber bushes from a couple of sellers on ebay (amongst other places) for about £20/pair. There's a bit more labour involved in taking the latter approach, so if you aren't doing the work yourself that will reduce the total saving it's possible to make.

i have recently changed most of what you have described on my multipla. My arb bushes were £18. Rear arm bearings were £16 per side. I fitted everything myself and if you know anyone handy with spanners its not too difficult.
My arb bushes took around 40minutes to change, so the garage is making a tidy profit on that job.
The garage is telling you to fit a complete arm because its easier for them. If they fit the bearings themselves it might take them an extra hour say, to remove the old ones and fit the new
Where abouts are you?

In response to the 'knocking' sound; my partner said has corrected me & said; 'NO!'...It's more like a creaking when you go around a corner...like you'd get on an old boat (where he got that comparison I don't know!). My description would be that the sound is like the tyres (or something near the tyres) is catching on something. The noise is worse when turning shaarp left or right.
Neither my partner or myself have any knowledge on how to make any mechanical repairs so have to rely on local garages. We have always used the same one as they know the car & as I rule have found them to be honest.

Gavlar said:

i have recently changed most of what you have described on my multipla. My arb bushes were £18. Rear arm bearings were £16 per side. I fitted everything myself and if you know anyone handy with spanners its not too difficult.
My arb bushes took around 40minutes to change, so the garage is making a tidy profit on that job.
The garage is telling you to fit a complete arm because its easier for them. If they fit the bearings themselves it might take them an extra hour say, to remove the old ones and fit the new
Where abouts are you?

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Thanks Galvar...We are in Lichfield, Staffs.
Unless I never return to that garage again, it's probably too late to fix my anti-roll bushes for less as they said they have already ordered the part & as they have to pay for the order it's too late to change. That being said, they were supposedly ordered last Thursday & no-one's rang me yet to say bring the car in.
I have yet to tell them to go ahead on the radius arms as we've been trying to save to have them fixed. The rear-arm bearings you mentioned....are they the ones for sale on ebay?? I understood that I needed complete arms as the repair kit I mentioned to the garage would not last?!
*I also need to say that when you look at the multipla from the rear it appears like both the back wheels are leaning inwards!

If it's a creaking and not a dull 'thunk' and your wheels are leaning in, then yes, I reckon it's the trailing arm bearings. However, unless the trailing arms have taken some other damage (e.g. from hitting something), then replacing the bearings in the existing arms should give you a repair just as durable as replacing the entire arm.

Shop4parts sell the bearing kits for around £16 per side + £5-ish for postage. They are Birth parts (an Italian company that make a lot of oem bits). I've got them on my car and they're fine.

http://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Details&ProdID=897&sku=2837

Getting the old ones out can be a real pain if the bolts are seized in, but those bolts have to be removed whether you replace the entire swing arm or just the bearings so the amount of work involved differs very little. I'd say replacing the bearings once the arms are removed from the car takes no more than 20-30 mins per side, and that's doing the job carefully, cleaning everything up.

One cost that you will almost certainly line yourself up for if you replace the whole swingarm (and it's something your garage won't mention until after the fact) is new ABS sensors. The sensors are almost always seized in the swingarms and will break when you try to remove them as they're only made of plastic. New ones are £50-70 per side. This assumes your car has ABS of course. Keeping the old swingarms means that you won't have to touch the sensors.

widemouthfrog said:

If it's a creaking and not a dull 'thunk' and your wheels are leaning in, then yes, I reckon it's the trailing arm bearings. However, unless the trailing arms have taken some other damage (e.g. from hitting something), then replacing the bearings in the existing arms should give you a repair just as durable as replacing the entire arm.

Shop4parts sell the bearing kits for around £16 per side + £5-ish for postage. They are Birth parts (an Italian company that make a lot of oem bits). I've got them on my car and they're fine.

http://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Details&ProdID=897&sku=2837

Getting the old ones out can be a real pain if the bolts are seized in, but those bolts have to be removed whether you replace the entire swing arm or just the bearings so the amount of work involved differs very little. I'd say replacing the bearings once the arms are removed from the car takes no more than 20-30 mins per side, and that's doing the job carefully, cleaning everything up.

One cost that you will almost certainly line yourself up for if you replace the whole swingarm (and it's something your garage won't mention until after the fact) is new ABS sensors. The sensors are almost always seized in the swingarms and will break when you try to remove them as they're only made of plastic. New ones are £50-70 per side. This assumes your car has ABS of course. Keeping the old swingarms means that you won't have to touch the sensors.

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Thanks for your detailed response, really appreciate it! Since we have owned this Multipla (May 2011), we have not hit anything. It has been weighed down with a lot of luggage when going on holidays etc including 6 passengers, but that's it.
As it looks like I might have to pay full whack for the anti-roll bushes (which If I recall correctly, I was told you could only get in pairs that's why it's so expensive?), I might just ask the garage to replace the trailing arm bearings only - stating I cannot afford the complete arm itself, especially now I've got to pay out for the arb. Surely this sounds reasonable?
Can I ask your advice also....Is it a 'no no' to ask a garage to fit parts that you purchase yourself? I've casually mentioned it on a few occaisions but get the feeling it's not something you should do??

It very much depends on the garage. You're more likely to get away with it at a smaller setup. Anyway, just ask - what have you got to lose?! There's a one-man-band just up the road from me who's more than happy for me to supply the parts; a larger non-franchised Alfa/Fiat specialist a few miles from here has also fitted a clutch that I bought in the past.

I see that Shop4parts also now sell the front ARB (anti roll bar) bushes at a good price. That's a new addition to their range. Shame it sounds as though it's too late for you to get a pair. A new ARB complete with the bushes cost around £120 so the price you're paying including fitting is about right (perhaps £15-20 more than I'd expect to pay).

For the rear bearings, this thread shows what I did (post #24 onwards):

https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/306049-lets-get-party-started-2.html

Rang the garage & taking the Multi in tomorrow (Thurs 7/2) for the Anti roll bushes.
When I go tomorrow (or if I get braver later today), I'll ask them to order just the bearings for the rear radius arms - see what they say?!
I'll keep you posted. Hopefully this should cost me less than replacing the arms themselves (especially in the long run after what you said about the ABS).
Thanks for your help.

I think WMF made a very good point about the ABS sensors.
I doubt your garage will try replace the bearings by leaving the swing arms in place.
Which means they will need to somehow disconnect the ABS sensors.
If they try pulling them from their mounting they will almost certainly break.
However there is a plug and i think there is a pic of its location(hidden) in WMF's post.
Marty.

Not wanting to scare/alarm you Shannon, but if the rear arm bearings are badly worn/corroded, it can turn into a real pig of a job.
Mine were, and I had to remove the subframe to sort them.
If you're doing it yourself, then the only extra cost is time, but if a garage is doing it, well it could turn into an expensive nightmare.

You can check to see if the bolts are seized by jacking the rear (on the subframe or chassis, not on the arm itself), loosening the nut until it's flush with the end of the bolt, and hitting the nut with a fairly hefty mallet (wood, plastic or hide-faced).
If the bolt moves fairly freely, then you should be able to swap the bearings without dropping the subframe or removing too much else.

Replacing trailing arm bearings

Trailing/radius arms

martyc5674 said:

I think WMF made a very good point about the ABS sensors.
I doubt your garage will try replace the bearings by leaving the swing arms in place.
Which means they will need to somehow disconnect the ABS sensors.
If they try pulling them from their mounting they will almost certainly break.
However there is a plug and i think there is a pic of its location(hidden) in WMF's post.
Marty.

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Thanks for the advice; Do you reckon I should mention the ABS sensors if swing arms are removed? & my concern at incurring extra cost or should I keep my mouth shut?
My Multipla's been to this garage that many times since I bought it surely they know it inside out?! I don't want to get on the wrong side of the garage....it might cost me more!!

BikeDoc said:

Not wanting to scare/alarm you Shannon, but if the rear arm bearings are badly worn/corroded, it can turn into a real pig of a job.
Mine were, and I had to remove the subframe to sort them.
If you're doing it yourself, then the only extra cost is time, but if a garage is doing it, well it could turn into an expensive nightmare.

You can check to see if the bolts are seized by jacking the rear (on the subframe or chassis, not on the arm itself), loosening the nut until it's flush with the end of the bolt, and hitting the nut with a fairly hefty mallet (wood, plastic or hide-faced).
If the bolt moves fairly freely, then you should be able to swap the bearings without dropping the subframe or removing too much else.

Replacing trailing arm bearings

Trailing/radius arms

Click to expand...

Cheers for the heads up - knowing my luck, this will be my experience!
It is going into the garage as I, well my partner have no car / mechanical knowledge what so ever.
Surely if this ends up being the case, the garage should inform me if it's going to cost me loads??
When I drop it off tomorrow to have the anti-roll bar/bushes replaced, i'll ask them to have a quick check - see if we can get away with just replacing the bearings. I'll let you know what they say. Wish us luck!

BikeDoc said:

Not wanting to scare/alarm you Shannon, but if the rear arm bearings are badly worn/corroded, it can turn into a real pig of a job.
Mine were, and I had to remove the subframe to sort them.
If you're doing it yourself, then the only extra cost is time, but if a garage is doing it, well it could turn into an expensive nightmare.

You can check to see if the bolts are seized by jacking the rear (on the subframe or chassis, not on the arm itself), loosening the nut until it's flush with the end of the bolt, and hitting the nut with a fairly hefty mallet (wood, plastic or hide-faced).
If the bolt moves fairly freely, then you should be able to swap the bearings without dropping the subframe or removing too much else.

Replacing trailing arm bearings

Trailing/radius arms

Click to expand...

Trailing/radius arms

The picture of the rear wheels in this link looks exactly like mine.
I am getting a bit confused though; within this link it mentions replacing arms/bushes (which is what I am having done tomorrow on the front), yet this link is in relation to the trailing / radius arms - which is what also need replacing & what I have been seeking advice on...can I get away with only replacing the bearings or as the garage have told me; 'a repair kit will fix your problem for a few months but it will only happen again...so should replace both sides with complete new arms'.

You're getting your arms and bushes confused!

On the front of the car, you're having the anti-roll bar (ARB) and its' bushes replaced. A roll bar is a metal rod that runs across the car, linking the left and right wheels. If you can picture looking down on the car from above, the roll bar is bent into a wide 'U' shape. The ends of the 'U' are fixed to the suspension arms (which in turn hold on to the wheels), so when the car leans over as it goes around a bend, the outside wheel forces that end of the bar up while the inside wheel, which is trying in some small way to lift itself off the ground, is forced down. Because the middle of the 'U' is held tightly to the car chassis by the rubber bushes we've been talking about, this up/down force applied to its' ends results in the middle run of the 'U' (where the bushes are) being twisted. So the resistance of the bar - it's an anti-roll bar - to this twisting tries to keep the car level as it corners, so you don't end up falling out of your seat.

When the rubber bushes wear out they can no longer hold on to the middle of the roll bar, allowing it to waggle around a bit and eventually hit some other metal bits under the car, so you get a clanking.

That's at the front. The Multipla also has an ARB at the back, but that one never seems to give any problems (not surprising, as it's a very neat installation, unlike the front one).

At the back, the wheels are held on to the rest of the car by a pair of arms (one on each side of the car) that pivot from a substantial bit of metalwork on the car body that's, roughly speaking, under the floor below the rear seats. When the back wheels hit a bump, these arms allow them to swing up and over the bump. A spring between the trailing end of the arms and the car body keep it all bouncy. The arms are metal castings, somewhere around 15 inches long, and are very strong. To allow these arms to move smoothly as the wheels go up and down, they have bearings fitted at the end which attaches to the car body.

When these bearings wear out, the arms are no longer controlled properly and the rear wheels are allowed to lean inwards with the weight of the car resting on them. That's why your back wheels look the way they do. The worn out bearings also start to squeak or creak. It's not the arms that are knackered, but the bearings inside them.

That's probably made everything as clear as mud.....

I have to say many thanks, truly, for taking the time to explain; I actually do understand a lot better now. I will try my luck tomorrow (when I drop the car off the the anti roll bar & bushes) & ask the garage to check If I can just have the bearings replaced, It's sounds like this is all that needs to be done & should cost us a lot less!
I'll keep you posted.

Just an update; Had my Anti roll bar / bushes done today at the garage. When I dropped it off this morning, I left a message with the receptionist (Main owner was out) about just having the bearings changed instead of 2 complete arms. I explained about what i'd read on here (about just changing the bearings would be just as good) & my worries that if the arms were replaced it could damage the abs sensors.
Later in the afternoon I contacted the garage & the main owner still recommended changing the whole arms & that also I'd need to do this for my MOT (expires on 14th Feb). His reminded me that I'd asked him before If I could do this (A few months ago when I knew they needed doing, I saw on ebay you could purchase a rear radius arm repair kit for about 15 pounds each). He assured me that within a few months I would have the same problem. At least by replacing the arms It would be guaranteed for 12mths - bearings are not guaranteed. Either way it still involves a lot of work (which I knew from everyones posts).
Haven't got a price yet about the work i've had done, but I'll let you all know.

Well, if he insists on replacing the swingarms complete, tell him that he can replace the ABS sensors at his expense if they get broken! If he's doing the MOT as well, the sensors will have to be working to pass.

Wait until he gives you the quote for doing the job before you tell him that, or he'll just lump the cost of the sensors in with everything else and you'll be none the wiser.

I still think he's talking a load of rubbish about the bearings :shakehead:

He is talking rubbish whether he knows it or not.
The kits are good OEM stuff every bit as good as original.
If he moves sensors from old to new he WILL break them.
Also he will break your brake lines.
If he won't do the bearings bring it to someone who
will... Otherwise it will end up unnecessarily expensive.
Marty.

widemouthfrog said:

Well, if he insists on replacing the swingarms complete, tell him that he can replace the ABS sensors at his expense if they get broken! If he's doing the MOT as well, the sensors will have to be working to pass.

Wait until he gives you the quote for doing the job before you tell him that, or he'll just lump the cost of the sensors in with everything else and you'll be none the wiser.

I still think he's talking a load of rubbish about the bearings :shakehead:

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I am a little worried I must admit, I asked him how much I owed for the work that had been done today (Anti-roll bar / bushes) & he said he hadn't prepared the bill yet. To give him the benefit of the doubt It was me that called him to check on progress of the car, he didn't call me. We had the conversation over the bearings/arms (I did raise my concerns over the ABS sensors, as well as my lack of money) and he said he'd order the parts & just add the bills together. He did say it could be a pain of a job to do so I'm not looking forward to the bill!
I'm in catch 22 here guys....If I knew someone who could have changed just the bearings I would, but I don't so I'm a bit stuck really.
I must say though, when I have thought other things have been wrong on my car (and believe me there's been quite a few...)I have taken it to this same garage & often they've said 'NO, it's ok it doesn't need doing', so am I being naieve here or can we trust nobody these days??