Hi

I have a problem with my EGR valve, I have removed it to clean which fixed the issue for approx 500 miles then it broke again. I had the classic symptoms of no power under 2000rpm and the P0401 fault code.

I have now made a blanking plate which has returned performance back to normal but still have the PO401 fault code causing the engine light to come on every 30-40 miles or so.

I would like to keep it blanked off as the performance has never been better and the mpg also seems higher than when I wad a working EGR, however the light really anoys me (more so my wife!)

If I get a replacement EGR but also keep the blanking plate will it stop the EML comming on?

I dont want to spend money getting a new valve if the light will still come off because its blocked off? Has anyone who has a working EGR blocked it off and did it cuase the EML to come on?

thanks in advance

Andy

If you are getting a new EGR then get the swirl gasket aswell this helps stop the build up of soot in EGR, not forgetting the EGR is there for a reason.

T14086 said:

If you are getting a new EGR then get the swirl gasket aswell this helps stop the build up of soot in EGR, not forgetting the EGR is there for a reason.

Click to expand...

Thanks I dont think its the mechnical value which has broken as I have cleaned it out and it moves freely, I think its the electrical part.

I prefer the performance and mpg with the EGR blocked off and I dont believe it will cause any long term damage to the engine, in fact the opposite may apply. As I am aware the EGR is only there for the emmisions which are not currently tested (MOT) or a legal requirement law in the UK at present, although may be in other EU contries hence why its fitted.

However what I need to know is will a PO401 error be triggered if I fit a new EGR but then keep the blanking plate? I am not 100% certain what the PO401 is caused by, is it a lack of movement in the EGR valve due to it being broken or is it caused by an air flow sensor which detects its blocked off?

thanks again

Andy

I sense a renewed debate on EGR operational requirements versus single owner preferences....

Ffoxy said:

I sense a renewed debate on EGR operational requirements versus single owner preferences....

Click to expand...

Yes somewhat! The EMl light is very anoying and makes my wife feel uneasy driving the car. The 'best' solution for me would be to stop the light and keep the EGR blanked off. So would changing the EGR for a new working one stop the light even if the pipe is blocked off?

rubberfingers said:

Yes somewhat! The EMl light is very anoying and makes my wife feel uneasy driving the car. The 'best' solution for me would be to stop the light and keep the EGR blanked off. So would changing the EGR for a new working one stop the light even if the pipe is blocked off?

Click to expand...

I'm not best placed to say really, I chose to have a new EGR which fixed everything and helped keep the environment clean, only cost me £156 at my local trusted Independent Garage.

Got rid of the low power below 2k RPM, no black smoke, performance fully restored & the EML was off...

Try it, that's the only way to find out. Remember that EGR errors are closely related to airflow meter errors and (as you said) restrictions in airflow circuit.
Dealerships use a set routine of tests to prove which part is at fault to eliminate the guesswork.

IMO I would use the swirl gasket as feedback is that its as good as blanking of the EGR, seems silly buying a new EGR then blanking it off why not just get one from a scrapyard in this case for £15.

EGR stops Nox gasses.

A correctly functioning EGR also allows the engine to run cooler. This in turn increases the life of the turbocharger, especially the bearing and seals. Lower temperatures can also help to reduce the amount of carbon build up, but other factors can influence this as well.

It doesn't seem to be as catastrophic on the JTD engines, but a non-functioning EGR on the Renault DCi units has caused grief for a lot of people (myself amongst them). It wasn't until I visited the Renault forums to try to fix my problem that I saw just how common it is. Soot build up in the EGR makes it jam and run hot, which in turn causes more soot, more jamming - a vicious circle. The increased combustion temperatures eventually cook the turbo bearing seals. Once this has happened, instead of the engine running on diesel, the vacuum created by the turbos intake turbine sucks engine oil in from the feed to the turbo bearings (past the knackered seals).

With its new-found supply of fuel (your engine oil), it will happily red-line, regardless of throttle pedal position, until it runs dry. It will then either sieze the turbo or the engine, if it hasn't already blown holes in its pistons. The warranty claims for blown turbos are numerous. The ironic thing is that if the whole system isn't thoroughly cleaned (EGR, oil feed system for the turbo, exhaust, intercooler and pipes) to get rid of soot, oil, swarf etc) then the newly fitted turbo often goes the same way after only a few months use.

Renaults cure was to water cool the EGR. It helps, but if the EGR isn't periodically cleaned of its soot, the above will still happen. But it does show that the EGR is there to protect the engine as well as reduce emmisions.

Before I had the saga with our Renault, I was a fan of EGR blocking (I did it to my old Mondeo ST TDCi to good effect). Now I've seen what can happen, I'm not so keen.

Can anyone confirm the part nos. and cost of the swirl+normal gaskets for a Multi? Looking at these threads it looks as if it could be around £20 for the set which seems to be a bit much to me or am I missing something regarding the engineering/technical cost/challenge of making these? Just market forces at play?

Mark

http://www.torqueitalia.net/forum/threads/347-EGR-Swirl-Gasket

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/253147-swirl-gasket.html

No ones forcing you to buy them (gaskets), EGR works without them.

Isn't the whole point that sometimes it doesn't? I had to clean mine out a while ago which was a hell of a job on my nosejob as I am not double jointed etc. If the swirl gasket were cheap then maybe more people would be tempted to fit one rather than blank it off???

Anyway as already stated above the whole EGR thread is kicking off again ;-)

Cheers
Mark

removing/refitting EGR isn't a hard job once familiar with it.

To blank of the EGR you need a suitable piece of steel, simply drill 5 holes in this and you have a swirl gasket

rubberfingers said:

Hi


I dont want to spend money getting a new valve if the light will still come off because its blocked off? Has anyone who has a working EGR blocked it off and did it cuase the EML to come on?

thanks in advance

Andy

Click to expand...

My EGR is currently blocked off, I got sick of freeing it up, and I'm too tight to buy a new one!
The EML does not come on.

Cheers

My EGR's are unblocked. Cost is immaterial

I've blanked the EGR on my old and current JTD's, my reasoning for doing this was two-fold.
1. It's not a job I want to do twice, regardless of how 'easy' it is.
2. Having seen the crud that the EGR was putting back into the engine made me doubly sure.

I'm aware that other engines can have problems if EGR's are blanked, notably Renault DCI's but I've not heard of one JTD having an issue.
Temperature remains at 3 bars except when fast cruising at motorway speeds when it's 4.
The EGR is primarily to reduce Nox emissions which occur at higher temperatures, however diesels run cooler than petrol anyway and the cooling system (if maintained) would have some over-capacity in any case, I've never heard my electric fan cut in except when the A/C is running so I'm reasonably confident the cooling system isn't being overworked.

Apart from that, the idea of making an engine run rich to cool it seems an inelegant not to mention inefficient solution, catalyst would be a better idea as it would be offset to a large extent by EGR not being fitted.

Better still to design the engine to run and meet relevant emissions without all the additional bits which cause the grief, DPF's EGR's, Catalysts, etc.
Appreciate it's a bit late for the JTD which is an old school lump but a fine engine nevertheless.

It would be good if some definitive data were available showing how much the engine is cooled by the EGR but I've googled extensively but can't find anything.

pig said:

My EGR is currently blocked off, I got sick of freeing it up, and I'm too tight to buy a new one!
The EML does not come on.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Well I got sick of having to reset the EML light every 20 miles so I have had a new EGR fitted at Fiat garage. They have fitted 2 gaskets (46773082) and a "modified gasket" (55226183) as well. Is this the swirl gasket (same as a blanking plate is a few holes in it?).

Now I wish I had not bothered!

Having had Fiat fit a new EGR valve and remove the blanking plate I fitted the EML has come on again. Having checked it its the same fault code as before - "P0401 - E.G.R Device (2) -- Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected. The Reason for this fault is that the ECU has received very low signal from the sensor. Thae Fault is present now. Take appropriate action to fix this sensor fault. Dashboard warning light was activated for this fault."

I have no power loss and the sensors change between on/off and % as the car is driven which would indicate the valve is working correctly now its got a new replacement fitted. The only thing I can think is that the new gasket is too restrictive and is causing a fault to register?

Can anyone help shed some light on this for me please

thanks

just because code reader says egr fault it doesn't mean it is, proper diagnosis is more than just a code reader. Any good diagnostic techs near you?

the EGR is there to recycle filthy exhaust gasses back into the inlet system! unless you are a fat 15 stone lesbian hippie earth mother ... blank it off. the engine will be much happier

....or your a concerned parent that has an interest in his kids well being, and of others.