Panda (Classic) 1988 Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley "Four by Fork"

panda1408 · Apr 8, 2017

Inner Gaiters:

RH: http://www.ricambio.co.uk/69-fiat/60-classic-panda-1981-to-2002-/483-rubber-boots-and-gaiters/706-inner-drive-shaft-boot-kit--fiat-cinquecento-classic-panda-uno-y10-strada-regata

LH: http://www.ricambio.co.uk/69-fiat/60-classic-panda-1981-to-2002-/483-rubber-boots-and-gaiters/707-inner-drive-shaft-boot-kit--fiat-cinquecento-classic-panda-uno-y10-strada-regata-tipo-tempra-bravo-brava

I normally replace the bearings, you have to remove them to fit the gaiters and the ones from Ricambio in the above links are genuine Fiat ones. Adam you are right the bearings don't really wear out but the seals do start to leak, its normally difficult to tell if they are if the gaiter is also split as they will be covered in oil anyway.

FDNY21 · Apr 8, 2017

Re: 1988 Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley "Four by Fork"

Sjvarley said:
Flooded with fuel
choke is for cold start

Stop trying to start leave 5 mins no choke then crank
That should do it if not a little coke when starts kill
Choke
Have patients is an old person

AndyPanda4x4 said:
Generally, if the temperature gauge reads above the normal cold setting, no choke is required. If the engine is cold and there is no reading on the temperature gauge then you'll need some choke.

Thanks to both for the info, I used full choke starting the first time and lowered it as it got up to temp. On the second start after it still being warm, I must have gone and used a little bit of choke for the start and then flooded with fuel, where what I should have done is not used any choke at all or at least not as much (depending on where the temp needle was showing). As someone who never used a choke before, this is invaluable information so I don't do it again though, so thanks again

onemanmade said:
Takes some getting used to

Pretty much mate, especially when new to it completely!

adamvarley said:
So, parts numbers for the gearbox gaitor a you require are...

LH gearbox gaitor- 7625541
RH gearbox gaitor- 7621245

My advice is eBay search for the parts number and buy old new official fiat stock. Will last longer than any aftermarket stuff.

You most likely wont need to replace the bearings as they aren't load bearing so should last forever.

The grease is for the CV joint gaitors not the gearbox gaitors.

Unfortunately I'm not sure of the CV gaitor part numbers but here is a close up picture for comparison

Thanks for the pictures and information Adam, as far as I am aware the outer CV gaiters are not available as spares so may have to be universal/aftermarket ones?

The grease was supplied in the outer CV joint gaiter kit yes, but it was also supplied in the inner joint kit, where it should be gearbox oil rather than grease? Or am I missing something and there's more gaiters than I thought?

My assumption is you're calling the inners the gearbox gaiters whereas I am calling them the inner CV gaiters so may have just got confused in myself

panda1408 said:
Inner Gaiters:

I normally replace the bearings, you have to remove them to fit the gaiters and the ones from Ricambio in the above links are genuine Fiat ones. Adam you are right the bearings don't really wear out but the seals do start to leak, its normally difficult to tell if they are if the gaiter is also split as they will be covered in oil anyway.

One 73mm and one 80mm there for the different inner gaiters, which must mean that the one I found on eBay wouldn't be a perfect fit as they were general for either side. I take it you recommend the genuine stock for inners and because the outers are not available (to my knowledge), universals will do (like the ones I initially linked)?

Ooer, didn't realise I was in for replacing bearings as well to start with but as long as it is easily done on the driveway then I can do it. All the was on the MOT for CVs was the outer gaiters but I believe you and Sj said it was best to do the inners while at it.

When I contacted you about gearbox spares you said you could send me all the bits, would you happen to have all the bits to do inner/outer CV gaiters and bearings so I could buy as a whole kit as well or is it worth still buying separately from Ricambio etc to get genuine parts?

Thanks all for the help so far - sorry, I haven't done anything with CVs before

Phiz · Apr 8, 2017

Pretty sure the repeater missing would be an MOT fail, not sure what year they became compulsary but guess all Panda's will be covered?

As for washer jet I wouldn't worry about it, you don't even need a rear windscreen for an MOT let alone a good wiper and a washer

.

FDNY21 said:
Just a quick consideration as well, as you may see from the picture in the post above, there is no rear washer for the window and on the left there is no side repeater. Wouldn't these be potential MOT failures, or at least the indicator would be? I have a spare indicator so was hoping to replace, not sure easy the washer is to do but I can salvage the washer from the CLX as well (hoping it's not too hard to fit )!

FDNY21 · Apr 8, 2017

Re: 1988 Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley "Four by Fork"

A little more from today

So, while Chaz had so far donated a couple of air intake clips, it was now time for more pieces to be transferred to keep the Sisley in better condition. First, the plastic arch liner was removed from the CLX and Sisley, so that the side nearside indicator could be transferred to Forkie as he did not have one. The indicator had lost its orange housing and left broken on top of the liner, so it was easy enough just to take the unit from Chaz and re-use it all!

While the handle was broken on the right rear window on the Sisley, and hence held tight against the seal via a bungee cord to the other window, I also found that both windows had one broken hinge each. Hence, all rear windows were removed from the Sisley and CLX - the tinted glass re-used from Chaz and put onto the Sisley with all handles and hinges transferred as well, however one handle was missing one side of the rivet so it was taken out and a new bolt with nut has it working perfectly as it should.

Now I've got the tinted rear glass on there as well as renewing all the handles and hinges so along with painting the Uno Turbo wheels today, I think it's been a productive day. It also had to be finished off with my first ever spot of driving on an off road track of course!

panda1408 · Apr 9, 2017

Owen, those inner gaiters you linked to are totally wrong for the front driveshafts, they are more like the type on the propshaft that drives the rear wheels, although they are not correct for that!

You need to use the original type for the inner due to the bearing and way they attach to the box, universal ones will not work. The outers, yes something like you linked to should work, the outer joint is a conventional type so the universal ones will work. You need to find a suitable universal gaiter, they vary and can end up being baggy and rubbing on the suspension arm.

I could put you a kit together with everything you would need, but I'll be honest and say I only get the inner gaiters from Ricambio anyway, I could however send you a pair of outer gaiters that I find work well if you wanted?

FDNY21 · Apr 9, 2017

panda1408 said:
Owen, those inner gaiters you linked to are totally wrong for the front driveshafts, they are more like the type on the propshaft that drives the rear wheels, although they are not correct for that!

You need to use the original type for the inner due to the bearing and way they attach to the box, universal ones will not work. The outers, yes something like you linked to should work, the outer joint is a conventional type so the universal ones will work. You need to find a suitable universal gaiter, they vary and can end up being baggy and rubbing on the suspension arm.

I could put you a kit together with everything you would need, but I'll be honest and say I only get the inner gaiters from Ricambio anyway, I could however send you a pair of outer gaiters that I find work well if you wanted?

That's very misleading that they advertise them as the replacement for the Panda then, thanks for the info. Shame they advertise it like that!

Speaking of my propshaft, that may be the culprit of one nasty sound I have while driving along. I've got Andy checking out a video to see if he knows what the sound is though... may post it here in a bit if we're still stumped.

So the inner needs the original from Ricambio, due to the bearing, so does the bearing have to come out to get the inner gaiter off or can I keep the bearing on while I do it? If it has to come off then would the kit include bearings as well? May be helpful to buy a set with outer gaiters that definitely work as I don't want to end up fouling crap ones and then having to do it again anyway, outers are the ones that came up on the MOT after all!

panda1408 · Apr 9, 2017

Yes, the bearing has to be removed to fit the inner gaiter and yes the link I gave is for the gaiters with bearings.

I can send you the outer gaiters, just say the word. Send me the video if you like aswell, although it is more than likely the CV joints on the propshaft rattling, does the noise happen when you come off the throttle?

FDNY21 · Apr 9, 2017

panda1408 said:
Yes, the bearing has to be removed to fit the inner gaiter and yes the link I gave is for the gaiters with bearings.

I can send you the outer gaiters, just say the word. Send me the video if you like aswell, although it is more than likely the CV joints on the propshaft rattling, does the noise happen when you come off the throttle?

Ahh I see, the kit on Ricambio includes the inner bearings, so I just need the RH and LH from Ricambio and universal outer gaiters and I'm sorted. I may give you a message about the outer at some point then.

In regards to the noise, it does occur when off the throttle, but also seems to happen when cruising as well:

Above videos should hopefully give some good insight into the noise, does sound like it could be coming from the propshaft area. Seems the things I need to do are slowly racking up...!

Another thing that I've noticed is that when I put the foot down, sometimes there is almost a "throttle lag", sometimes worse than other times, where it seems to take a couple of seconds for the engine to decide that it should actuate on what I have put into the pedal. My initial thought is it could be the cable but I lubricated the moving pieces and the issue is still there so I'm wondering if it could be a carb issue or something like that :bang:

panda1408 · Apr 10, 2017

Hmm not the usual CV joint rattle, could be extremely worn CV joints on the prop (not front driveshaft) or centre bearings I would say, a look underneath would soon find it though I would think.

firstcar-Y10 · Apr 10, 2017

FDNY21 said:
Another thing that I've noticed is that when I put the foot down, sometimes there is almost a "throttle lag", sometimes worse than other times, where it seems to take a couple of seconds for the engine to decide that it should actuate on what I have put into the pedal. My initial thought is it could be the cable but I lubricated the moving pieces and the issue is still there so I'm wondering if it could be a carb issue or something like that :bang:

One to check on the carb - There's a little pump that squirts extra fuel in when you hit the throttle, the membrane can perish and split. take the airbox off and look down the carb while you twist the throttle on and off rapidly - you should hear a little "psst" each time and see/smell the fuel squirting in. If not, new membrane needed, easiest way is to just get a carb service kit and give it a once over.

kolza · Apr 11, 2017

panda1408 said:
Yes, the bearing has to be removed to fit the inner gaiter and...

I think I'm having de-ja-vu...

Owen, keep the Sisley rear glass safe as they are factory green tinted where the clx might be clear or blue ish.

Rattle sounds like it is coming from prop shaft,

1. 4 axle stands - one each corner,
2. lock one rear wheel and spin the other one to get prop rotating - looks for similar noises.
3. start engine, engage 4x4 and 1st gear and check again ( both rear wheels free)

FDNY21 · Apr 11, 2017

panda1408 said:
Hmm not the usual CV joint rattle, could be extremely worn CV joints on the prop (not front driveshaft) or centre bearings I would say, a look underneath would soon find it though I would think.

On the list to take a look underneath for that then - about a week ago, while underneath, I could slide the shaft forwards and backwards by about a centimeter, not sure if that's what could be causing the noise or if it's normal or not! If it would be useful then I can get a picture/video of that...

firstcar-Y10 said:
One to check on the carb - There's a little pump that squirts extra fuel in when you hit the throttle, the membrane can perish and split. take the airbox off and look down the carb while you twist the throttle on and off rapidly - you should hear a little "psst" each time and see/smell the fuel squirting in. If not, new membrane needed, easiest way is to just get a carb service kit and give it a once over.

Thanks, it could well be that, also on the list to take a look

I'll post my findings here once I find out...

kolza said:
I think I'm having de-ja-vu...

Owen, keep the Sisley rear glass safe as they are factory green tinted where the clx might be clear or blue ish.

Rattle sounds like it is coming from prop shaft,

1. 4 axle stands - one each corner,
2. lock one rear wheel and spin the other one to get prop rotating - looks for similar noises.
3. start engine, engage 4x4 and 1st gear and check again ( both rear wheels free)

Just making sure

Will be sure to keep the glass, I was initially hoping to just take the handles off of the black tinted windows and put them on the Sisley glass, but when I saw the hinges it just became clear to me that I should just move all of the black tint windows/hinges and handles over and just fix the one damaged part of the handle. I wasn't sure how to remove the handle either (from the window completely), the Haynes manual doesn't say anything other than how to remove the whole window from the hinges. Didn't want to break the handles but if it's easy enough then I may give it a go at some point? For now I will keep the rear glass as spare as I have mechanical issues to attend to first!

Thanks for the info, going to do a bit of testing and looking around on the prop at some point.

---

Because the prop is making the noise in 2wd rather than only 4x4, can that mean that I am damaging the prop further just by using it? Or is it easier to find what's wrong with it because it does it in 2wd as well? I'll do some testing underneath over the next few days where time allows and see where I get

FDNY21 · Apr 11, 2017

Just spoken to my father about the noise. He said that while we were test driving the car, the noise was not apparent, even when he was outside of the car as I drove past. He also said that he didn't start to hear a noise when we were driving the car back until the last 10 minutes of the journey (give or take). He says is it possible something came loose over the journey and hence something is fowling something moving, as opposed to a bearing or joint (which is more likely to gradually go rather than go immediately)?

Going to take a look underneath will certainly help to find the issue though, and kolza's idea should point us in the right direction hopefully!

Sjvarley · Apr 11, 2017

1988 Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley "Four by Fork"

Could be either the central bearing mounts as kolza said is the procedure it also maybe that the prop cv gaiter are shot and have debris ingress causing noise. When the drive is applies force this may go !
One or two ways to identify the noise location but creep and go Owen repost if you've still the problem!

onemanmade · Apr 11, 2017

I agree with Kolza and Sjvarley so nothing more to add from me.

As for changing the windows, if memory serves (cant check mine as 750 windows are sealed) its a simple remove the handle using the screws on the inside attached to the pillar then from the outside just pull it backwards and the two tabs at the front should slide out. Use 2 people and gentle to be safe tho

FDNY21 · Apr 11, 2017

onemanmade said:
I agree with Kolza and Sjvarley so nothing more to add from me.

As for changing the windows, if memory serves (cant check mine as 750 windows are sealed) its a simple remove the handle using the screws on the inside attached to the pillar then from the outside just pull it backwards and the two tabs at the front should slide out. Use 2 people and gentle to be safe tho

I already changed the windows, the Haynes manual tells you how to do this but it's quite easy as only needs five screws taking out, one on each of the two hinges and three on the handle. I've got the black tinted windows from my CLX on the Sisley so already transferred them. What I was wondering was if it was possible to change the handles over from my CLX windows to the Sisley windows - not desperate to change them over though as the black tints look fine on there

onemanmade · Apr 11, 2017

FDNY21 said:
I already changed the windows, the Haynes manual tells you how to do this but it's quite easy as only needs five screws taking out, one on each of the two hinges and three on the handle. I've got the black tinted windows from my CLX on the Sisley so already transferred them. What I was wondering was if it was possible to change the handles over from my CLX windows to the Sisley windows - not desperate to change them over though as the black tints look fine on there

I would imagine so dude

Ur cracking on well!

FDNY21 · Apr 12, 2017

I took a video of the shaft movement I was talking about. The noise is coming from the front, the rear makes no noise. So, it's towards the engine end that is making the noise, it sounds like it's coming from the joint shown in the video, I can see there's no gaiter left where there should be as well.

kolza · Apr 12, 2017

Yep, you've nailed it!

Looks like both ends will need attention.

Here is probably the cheapest solution.

( I can confirm spline number if your interested)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JEEP-CHER...521412?hash=item4aaf2cb044:g:474AAOSwNRdYBhHn

ps. one part will not get used - the blanking plate.

panda1408 · Apr 12, 2017

Hmm, that looks just a tad worn! Probably been running with the gaiter split for quite some time. Quite often a clean, re grease and new gaiter sorts things out, but I'd say they are probably past it.

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